70 thoughts on “Hey Gauntleteers!”

  3. I feel they are doing the right thing and I’d be tempted if I wasn’t busy trying to develop my own project at the moment. Not enjoying watching the abuse they are getting for it but (sadly) it is what passes for normal these days.

  4. I feel they are doing the right thing and I’d be tempted if I wasn’t busy trying to develop my own project at the moment. Not enjoying watching the abuse they are getting for it but (sadly) it is what passes for normal these days.

  5. I am glad they are doing it. It may not have been done perfectly, but the effort has to be made. The Green Ronin team can withstand the “actually” crowd;s invective.

    Many companies talk about inclusion, but it is great to see people reach out more directly. Nicole Lindroos is doing great.

  6. I am glad they are doing it. It may not have been done perfectly, but the effort has to be made. The Green Ronin team can withstand the “actually” crowd;s invective.

    Many companies talk about inclusion, but it is great to see people reach out more directly. Nicole Lindroos is doing great.

  7. I always felt that the perspectives on most fantasy games were taken from a pattern of narrative identified by the American scholar Joseph Campbell labeled the Hero’s journey. Admittedly some folks like familiar patterns and tropes in their gaming stories, but I prefer to have different world views enter the genre. That said, I think it’s a great thing to do, as long as it’s about fresh perspectives and without some political agenda behind it. In my opinion, I felt Blue Rose had a political bias underlying it’s motives, or motifs should I say. Which is disappointing, and yet I really liked the idea of telepathic cats! 🙂 Anyway, I’m positive there will be some phenomenal writing come out of it and most likely a really awesome new rpg – lost citadel.

  8. I always felt that the perspectives on most fantasy games were taken from a pattern of narrative identified by the American scholar Joseph Campbell labeled the Hero’s journey. Admittedly some folks like familiar patterns and tropes in their gaming stories, but I prefer to have different world views enter the genre. That said, I think it’s a great thing to do, as long as it’s about fresh perspectives and without some political agenda behind it. In my opinion, I felt Blue Rose had a political bias underlying it’s motives, or motifs should I say. Which is disappointing, and yet I really liked the idea of telepathic cats! 🙂 Anyway, I’m positive there will be some phenomenal writing come out of it and most likely a really awesome new rpg – lost citadel.

  9. This relates to a very long discussion my wife and I had last night about men trying to understand women’s issues and how it leads to so much automatic tension. As much as I’m in favour of a publisher seeking out a particular type of author with the viewpoint/experience (even if that’s gender based) for a project, I’m curious about the whole thing in general. There’s been quite a few direct open calls like this and I’ve been wondering… Does a direct call for either a specific gender/minority or excluding some (directly or vaguely) make that much of an impact on those communities? And by that I mean is it a perception that these groups cannot make it into the industry without going through a specifically marked door or has there been clear evidence that these groups have been blocked from entering over the past 10 years or so? There are women, in this case, who have made names for themselves without these direct calls (to my knowledge, but that’s the point – this is not something I know or understand because I haven’t truly paid attention in the past). Not as many as keeping with the gender breakdown of the RPG community as a whole, mind you, so I may have just answered my own question.

    This is a genuine question simply because I’m a card carrying member of White Dudes With Cards and want to get a better understanding of how things look from the other side of the window. Is it a form of imposter syndrome and this is a way to encourage people to overcome any uncertainty or hesitation because of other factors in the world?

    A follow-up question would be whether or not this creates a Pepsi commercial out of a tense situation in the RPG community. Look at Modiphius and their open call that included nothing but dudes, despite their “open to all people” post. Are publishers who openly ask for marginalized communities simply going with the flow on a highly publicized issues right now?

  10. This relates to a very long discussion my wife and I had last night about men trying to understand women’s issues and how it leads to so much automatic tension. As much as I’m in favour of a publisher seeking out a particular type of author with the viewpoint/experience (even if that’s gender based) for a project, I’m curious about the whole thing in general. There’s been quite a few direct open calls like this and I’ve been wondering… Does a direct call for either a specific gender/minority or excluding some (directly or vaguely) make that much of an impact on those communities? And by that I mean is it a perception that these groups cannot make it into the industry without going through a specifically marked door or has there been clear evidence that these groups have been blocked from entering over the past 10 years or so? There are women, in this case, who have made names for themselves without these direct calls (to my knowledge, but that’s the point – this is not something I know or understand because I haven’t truly paid attention in the past). Not as many as keeping with the gender breakdown of the RPG community as a whole, mind you, so I may have just answered my own question.

    This is a genuine question simply because I’m a card carrying member of White Dudes With Cards and want to get a better understanding of how things look from the other side of the window. Is it a form of imposter syndrome and this is a way to encourage people to overcome any uncertainty or hesitation because of other factors in the world?

    A follow-up question would be whether or not this creates a Pepsi commercial out of a tense situation in the RPG community. Look at Modiphius and their open call that included nothing but dudes, despite their “open to all people” post. Are publishers who openly ask for marginalized communities simply going with the flow on a highly publicized issues right now?

  11. It’s a move that’s important. Making the industry more inclusive requires people in power actually making spaces. I’m a little bit leery of it being basically a contest (mostly due to the actions of other companies using contests to generate free labour), but I also think that choice might be for legal reasons.

    The abuse that was received is obnoxious but sadly not surprising. Going back to the positions of power, some of the backlash involved people trying to report Nicole to her manager; because a woman clearly couldn’t be the top of the food chain. There’s also cries of meritocracy, which I’m guessing is the ethics crowd failing to understand complex ethical issues again.

  12. It’s a move that’s important. Making the industry more inclusive requires people in power actually making spaces. I’m a little bit leery of it being basically a contest (mostly due to the actions of other companies using contests to generate free labour), but I also think that choice might be for legal reasons.

    The abuse that was received is obnoxious but sadly not surprising. Going back to the positions of power, some of the backlash involved people trying to report Nicole to her manager; because a woman clearly couldn’t be the top of the food chain. There’s also cries of meritocracy, which I’m guessing is the ethics crowd failing to understand complex ethical issues again.

  19. Rach Shelkey Without seeing the rules it isn’t concrete but Nicole has said that it is in particular not to create a free labour situation. It is to find someone for a paying job and not a way to fill a book. Again, impossible to know without the rules, but Nicole gets my benefit of the doubt. Not that you aren’t either with what you said, I just know she made that clear in other things she has said about it.

    I am in full support of it. I appreciated them taking the time to clarify their statement of who they meant when they were asked about non-binary inclusion. As far as these things go, I believe that they are doing the best thing they can to find new talent, and voices, that the industry might not get otherwise which will only make for a better whole.

  20. Rach Shelkey Without seeing the rules it isn’t concrete but Nicole has said that it is in particular not to create a free labour situation. It is to find someone for a paying job and not a way to fill a book. Again, impossible to know without the rules, but Nicole gets my benefit of the doubt. Not that you aren’t either with what you said, I just know she made that clear in other things she has said about it.

    I am in full support of it. I appreciated them taking the time to clarify their statement of who they meant when they were asked about non-binary inclusion. As far as these things go, I believe that they are doing the best thing they can to find new talent, and voices, that the industry might not get otherwise which will only make for a better whole.

  21. I support a search for a specific style of writing, however I hope that the company support would include both the space to allow creativity without expectation, and support & defense of their work once completed.

  22. I support a search for a specific style of writing, however I hope that the company support would include both the space to allow creativity without expectation, and support & defense of their work once completed.

  23. Calls for a meritocracy tend to assume that 1) a given system treats all participants equally and 2) the worth of work produced within a field can be objectively assessed based on financial success or name recognition. In the case of RPGs, I can state with relative certainty that neither of these assumptions hold true. One way of disrupting these assumptions and altering the field is by directly addressing the fact that women are under-represented as content creators within the industry, and I applaud Green Ronin for having done so.

  24. Calls for a meritocracy tend to assume that 1) a given system treats all participants equally and 2) the worth of work produced within a field can be objectively assessed based on financial success or name recognition. In the case of RPGs, I can state with relative certainty that neither of these assumptions hold true. One way of disrupting these assumptions and altering the field is by directly addressing the fact that women are under-represented as content creators within the industry, and I applaud Green Ronin for having done so.

  25. Unlike Rocky Perez, I’m quite happy when games have a political agenda.

    (But also let’s not forget that apathy to political issues is a political agenda.)

  26. Unlike Rocky Perez, I’m quite happy when games have a political agenda.

    (But also let’s not forget that apathy to political issues is a political agenda.)

  27. I think the end goal is admirable, but this pitch sounds like we’re about to watch an episode of American Idol. “In the end, one lucky woman game designer will rise above them all and join the hallowed ranks of Green Ronin contract workers!”

  28. I think the end goal is admirable, but this pitch sounds like we’re about to watch an episode of American Idol. “In the end, one lucky woman game designer will rise above them all and join the hallowed ranks of Green Ronin contract workers!”

  29. As to the actual tactic here, I’m mostly in favor. I also think the contest vibe is a little skeevy (but there’s a history of this kind of skeeve, at least (Eberron, for example)).

    I’m also not sure this is the best way to achieve the very laudable aim of getting more non-men writing in the hobby, as much as I’d love that. I’m on a scale at least two orders of magnitude below GR, but when I put out open calls, I don’t get much, and when I’ve done that to serve diversity needs, it’s even less reliable. (Privately inviting individuals has tended to work better for me.)

    But in the end, a big company saying “we want to hire women” is good, so I don’t feel a great impetus to analyze this much further. They’re trying to do good.

  30. As to the actual tactic here, I’m mostly in favor. I also think the contest vibe is a little skeevy (but there’s a history of this kind of skeeve, at least (Eberron, for example)).

    I’m also not sure this is the best way to achieve the very laudable aim of getting more non-men writing in the hobby, as much as I’d love that. I’m on a scale at least two orders of magnitude below GR, but when I put out open calls, I don’t get much, and when I’ve done that to serve diversity needs, it’s even less reliable. (Privately inviting individuals has tended to work better for me.)

    But in the end, a big company saying “we want to hire women” is good, so I don’t feel a great impetus to analyze this much further. They’re trying to do good.

  31. Yeah, it’s hard to criticize, because I do think they’re trying here, but I think an approach that would be even better (and would eliminate accusations of virtue signaling) would be to set some actionable diversity goals and then do the work of achieving them. Larger companies in particular have more responsibility to deal with issues like diversity and representation in a more systematic way. This contest is interesting, and perhaps it will lead to the folks at Green Ronin becoming more familiar with the work of women writers who they might use on future projects, but it seems just as likely to turn out to be something they can point to six months down the road and be like: “See? We hire women.”

  32. Yeah, it’s hard to criticize, because I do think they’re trying here, but I think an approach that would be even better (and would eliminate accusations of virtue signaling) would be to set some actionable diversity goals and then do the work of achieving them. Larger companies in particular have more responsibility to deal with issues like diversity and representation in a more systematic way. This contest is interesting, and perhaps it will lead to the folks at Green Ronin becoming more familiar with the work of women writers who they might use on future projects, but it seems just as likely to turn out to be something they can point to six months down the road and be like: “See? We hire women.”

  33. Ugh. Copy pasta didn’t work and edit feature killed this.

    To sum up.

    1. I think a loud public thing is important to draw people who might not know about or feel welcome to submit.

    2. You need to be active to get people because they may not be aware of feel welcome to submit, so a mission statement and waiting doesn’t quite do it.

    3. I think GR’s political stance is pretty clear, and Nicole is doing it because she saw a dearth of opportunities for mentorship and access and wanted to take proactive steps

    4. For Robert Bohl, Nicole gets the benefit of the doubt from me in regards to what’s happening because she’s talked about how this isn’t a contest designed to create new IP (see: Eberron) and that it’s for finding designers/writers (and the ‘winner’ gets this contract but who says there isn’t other opportunities down the road).

    Also: Not sure where I’m going with this after now refreshing and somehow seeing the whole exchange between Jason and Robert so um … ignore this and move on if you’d like.

  34. Ugh. Copy pasta didn’t work and edit feature killed this.

    To sum up.

    1. I think a loud public thing is important to draw people who might not know about or feel welcome to submit.

    2. You need to be active to get people because they may not be aware of feel welcome to submit, so a mission statement and waiting doesn’t quite do it.

    3. I think GR’s political stance is pretty clear, and Nicole is doing it because she saw a dearth of opportunities for mentorship and access and wanted to take proactive steps

    4. For Robert Bohl, Nicole gets the benefit of the doubt from me in regards to what’s happening because she’s talked about how this isn’t a contest designed to create new IP (see: Eberron) and that it’s for finding designers/writers (and the ‘winner’ gets this contract but who says there isn’t other opportunities down the road).

    Also: Not sure where I’m going with this after now refreshing and somehow seeing the whole exchange between Jason and Robert so um … ignore this and move on if you’d like.

  35. Jonathan Lavallee Honestly, I only know Green Ronin from little bits of conversation here and there. I’m not familiar with their company structure because I don’t follow RPG industry stuff. But I do know something about project management and setting goals. An organization of any size can set discrete, actionable goals to accomplish almost anything they want. This contest might very well be part of a bigger plan, in which case, that’s awesome. If it’s not, it can still serve a helpful function, such as making underrepresented people in the industry feel welcome.

    But I do think the pitch is kind of weird. I re-read it as if it was pitched to POC or gay people (of which I am both) and I found it somewhat alienating.

  36. Jonathan Lavallee Honestly, I only know Green Ronin from little bits of conversation here and there. I’m not familiar with their company structure because I don’t follow RPG industry stuff. But I do know something about project management and setting goals. An organization of any size can set discrete, actionable goals to accomplish almost anything they want. This contest might very well be part of a bigger plan, in which case, that’s awesome. If it’s not, it can still serve a helpful function, such as making underrepresented people in the industry feel welcome.

    But I do think the pitch is kind of weird. I re-read it as if it was pitched to POC or gay people (of which I am both) and I found it somewhat alienating.

  37. I just read the link and I have mixed feelings about this. On one hand, I think that creating a more inclusionary environment in the rpg writing and publishing space is incredibly important. Not only would it be beneficial from a social and workplace equality standpoint, but it would also benefit players as a whole by bringing new perspectives to game writing that could give us new experiences at the table.

    On the other hand, I wonder if an inherently exclusionary contest can help create an inclusionary cultural shift in the hobby. Naysayers will be able to claim that the winner only got their shot because others were excluded, and participants will be shown that they are wanted in the rpg writing space, but only when a specific doorway into the field is created for them.

    I agree with Jason Cordova​ that internal company goals and project parameters may be an effective tool for addressing this issue.

    In the end I worry that this is more about pr for Green Ronin than creating real, lasting change. Big changes need to happen, I’m just unsure if this is a good way to go about it. I hope I’m proven wrong.

  38. I just read the link and I have mixed feelings about this. On one hand, I think that creating a more inclusionary environment in the rpg writing and publishing space is incredibly important. Not only would it be beneficial from a social and workplace equality standpoint, but it would also benefit players as a whole by bringing new perspectives to game writing that could give us new experiences at the table.

    On the other hand, I wonder if an inherently exclusionary contest can help create an inclusionary cultural shift in the hobby. Naysayers will be able to claim that the winner only got their shot because others were excluded, and participants will be shown that they are wanted in the rpg writing space, but only when a specific doorway into the field is created for them.

    I agree with Jason Cordova​ that internal company goals and project parameters may be an effective tool for addressing this issue.

    In the end I worry that this is more about pr for Green Ronin than creating real, lasting change. Big changes need to happen, I’m just unsure if this is a good way to go about it. I hope I’m proven wrong.

  39. From Nicole Lindroos, the co-owner of Green Ronin:

    “I can’t believe that I have to do this sort of clarification, but it seems like some corners of the Internet are struggling to understand what we wanted to accomplish with our Lost Citadel Talent Search, as there’s a surprising amount of disinformation and incorrect speculation taking place.

    For starters, let’s just get the names right, shall we? I am Nicole Lindroos, General Manager and co-owner of Green Ronin Publishing. If you want to write in to complain to my “manager” that their “employee” is doing something you don’t like, you’re barking up the wrong tree. The developer of the RPG project that is the impetus for the talent search is C.A. Suleiman. That’s with a “C” and an “A.” (It’s only two letters, folks.)

    Also, despite repeated trolling of our website to nail down how many employees Green Ronin has, in the hopes of getting us in trouble with the EEOC or some other governmental entity, I’m sorry to have to tell you that you can’t tell a person’s employment status by those with whom they pose for photos. Even if Green Ronin employed a number of people that would put our business under EEOC regulation (we don’t), the EEOC really doesn’t care about our talent search, which is a contest and not an advertisement for employment. It’s just a contest aimed at women.

    And yes, that means trans women and people who consider themselves non-gender-conforming, non-binary, or one of some other self-identifiers that may not yet be legally addressed or protected categories, but which I do my best to respect; not because, as some have speculated, I’m trying to cover my ass legally, but because it’s the right thing to do. Of course they’re included in this.

    Much has been made by a few over my statement that the winner of the talent search would get a paid contract. This was my language in describing our intent because I wanted to be very clear that this is not some sort of shady scam where a publisher gets writers to submit work that the publisher can then use for free. There have been companies who, in relatively recent memory, have done such things, and I will NOT be a participant in that kind of legal-but-unethical behavior. I want to find new talent to work with, and I want to offer a tangible reward because it is the right thing to do.

    You may sense a theme here. We are interested in doing the right thing. For us, that means:

    Making sure that a new dark fantasy setting doesn’t default to white male voices because we didn’t make an effort otherwise. Making sure we don’t inadvertently exclude people based on sloppy binary language. Making sure that when we’ve evaluated new talent, we don’t take advantage of or attempt to benefit from their submissions just because it might be legally permissible to do so.

    So, amidst the wailing and gnashing of teeth from a handful of guys who just can’t get their brains around why there might be a contest that isn’t built for them, even people who are generally on “our” side in this have been confused and managing to illustrate exactly why this contest is needed:

    A perfect example of why I am no longer content to just passively wait for a legitimate gender imbalance in my business to correct itself through the virtues of “meritocracy,” or the hope that good intentions will somehow, eventually, win out without intentional effort, comes from someone who almost certainly considers himself in favor of my goal of finding more female creatives. And yet, despite what I believe were honest and good intentions, this fellow credited a blog piece that I wrote for the Green Ronin “Ronin Roundtable” not to me, but to my husband (and business partner). In the midst of arguing about how many employees we have, none of the men on either side of the debate checked the source material for that very discussion, or if they did, they either didn’t notice or didn’t care about the misattribution. It was corrected only after I corrected it, myself.

    And this, this situation where I have to personally advocate for basic acknowledgement of my public positions, even amongst men with good intentions and a desire for an honest debate… this is emblematic of why I’m cutting to the chase. This is why we’re running a talent search that focuses on those voices that are consistently, even if unintentionally, ignored, drowned out, or even erased.”

  40. From Nicole Lindroos, the co-owner of Green Ronin:

    “I can’t believe that I have to do this sort of clarification, but it seems like some corners of the Internet are struggling to understand what we wanted to accomplish with our Lost Citadel Talent Search, as there’s a surprising amount of disinformation and incorrect speculation taking place.

    For starters, let’s just get the names right, shall we? I am Nicole Lindroos, General Manager and co-owner of Green Ronin Publishing. If you want to write in to complain to my “manager” that their “employee” is doing something you don’t like, you’re barking up the wrong tree. The developer of the RPG project that is the impetus for the talent search is C.A. Suleiman. That’s with a “C” and an “A.” (It’s only two letters, folks.)

    Also, despite repeated trolling of our website to nail down how many employees Green Ronin has, in the hopes of getting us in trouble with the EEOC or some other governmental entity, I’m sorry to have to tell you that you can’t tell a person’s employment status by those with whom they pose for photos. Even if Green Ronin employed a number of people that would put our business under EEOC regulation (we don’t), the EEOC really doesn’t care about our talent search, which is a contest and not an advertisement for employment. It’s just a contest aimed at women.

    And yes, that means trans women and people who consider themselves non-gender-conforming, non-binary, or one of some other self-identifiers that may not yet be legally addressed or protected categories, but which I do my best to respect; not because, as some have speculated, I’m trying to cover my ass legally, but because it’s the right thing to do. Of course they’re included in this.

    Much has been made by a few over my statement that the winner of the talent search would get a paid contract. This was my language in describing our intent because I wanted to be very clear that this is not some sort of shady scam where a publisher gets writers to submit work that the publisher can then use for free. There have been companies who, in relatively recent memory, have done such things, and I will NOT be a participant in that kind of legal-but-unethical behavior. I want to find new talent to work with, and I want to offer a tangible reward because it is the right thing to do.

    You may sense a theme here. We are interested in doing the right thing. For us, that means:

    Making sure that a new dark fantasy setting doesn’t default to white male voices because we didn’t make an effort otherwise. Making sure we don’t inadvertently exclude people based on sloppy binary language. Making sure that when we’ve evaluated new talent, we don’t take advantage of or attempt to benefit from their submissions just because it might be legally permissible to do so.

    So, amidst the wailing and gnashing of teeth from a handful of guys who just can’t get their brains around why there might be a contest that isn’t built for them, even people who are generally on “our” side in this have been confused and managing to illustrate exactly why this contest is needed:

    A perfect example of why I am no longer content to just passively wait for a legitimate gender imbalance in my business to correct itself through the virtues of “meritocracy,” or the hope that good intentions will somehow, eventually, win out without intentional effort, comes from someone who almost certainly considers himself in favor of my goal of finding more female creatives. And yet, despite what I believe were honest and good intentions, this fellow credited a blog piece that I wrote for the Green Ronin “Ronin Roundtable” not to me, but to my husband (and business partner). In the midst of arguing about how many employees we have, none of the men on either side of the debate checked the source material for that very discussion, or if they did, they either didn’t notice or didn’t care about the misattribution. It was corrected only after I corrected it, myself.

    And this, this situation where I have to personally advocate for basic acknowledgement of my public positions, even amongst men with good intentions and a desire for an honest debate… this is emblematic of why I’m cutting to the chase. This is why we’re running a talent search that focuses on those voices that are consistently, even if unintentionally, ignored, drowned out, or even erased.”

  41. Because a couple people have put this out this idea of PR move, I’m going to ask a question that I’m hoping people can answer.

    How does this feel like a PR move?

    I understand and appreciate Jason Cordova’s view on the language and the framing because I don’t have the perspective of reading that through a personal lens. So, when he says that it hits him with a certain negative feeling on other axis I get that the wording and how it’s frame was not necessarily the best and could cause that kind of dissonance because I know that’s something which will easy fly over my head.

    But the term “PR move” has come up from a few people and I’m curious if you can unpack that a bit more.

    To me Green Ronin has always been rather up front in their beliefs (see: Blue Rose) so this isn’t them trying to win a market that they didn’t already serve? Do you feel that it’s reinforcing that market? That they are currently going to use this as a way to deflect criticism from … something in the future?

    Also, see Kate Bullock posting the response from Nicole with other clarifications.

  42. Because a couple people have put this out this idea of PR move, I’m going to ask a question that I’m hoping people can answer.

    How does this feel like a PR move?

    I understand and appreciate Jason Cordova’s view on the language and the framing because I don’t have the perspective of reading that through a personal lens. So, when he says that it hits him with a certain negative feeling on other axis I get that the wording and how it’s frame was not necessarily the best and could cause that kind of dissonance because I know that’s something which will easy fly over my head.

    But the term “PR move” has come up from a few people and I’m curious if you can unpack that a bit more.

    To me Green Ronin has always been rather up front in their beliefs (see: Blue Rose) so this isn’t them trying to win a market that they didn’t already serve? Do you feel that it’s reinforcing that market? That they are currently going to use this as a way to deflect criticism from … something in the future?

    Also, see Kate Bullock posting the response from Nicole with other clarifications.

  43. Yeah, to be clear, I’m only commenting on the idea that it is set up as a contest, not the actual results desired.

    One thing I think is helpful to keep in mind in this thread is the vast majority of people who play and purchase RPGs do not know the names of the people who made them, do not follow the designers on social media, and do not keep up with the ins & outs of the industry. The Gauntlet in particular is a player community, not a designer community, and so very little of our conversation revolves around stuff like this. I point that out only to highlight that not everyone is operating with the same level of familiarity or personal connections with the people involved.

    That said, I think the context of knowing where Green Ronin is coming from, and their history, is helpful.

  44. Yeah, to be clear, I’m only commenting on the idea that it is set up as a contest, not the actual results desired.

    One thing I think is helpful to keep in mind in this thread is the vast majority of people who play and purchase RPGs do not know the names of the people who made them, do not follow the designers on social media, and do not keep up with the ins & outs of the industry. The Gauntlet in particular is a player community, not a designer community, and so very little of our conversation revolves around stuff like this. I point that out only to highlight that not everyone is operating with the same level of familiarity or personal connections with the people involved.

    That said, I think the context of knowing where Green Ronin is coming from, and their history, is helpful.

  45. Jason Cordova Thanks. I sometimes forget that. I’ve played too much insider baseball for too long.

    Edit: Also apparently too much french canadian at times as well. I forget s and add e … which I think I did both on this small post.

  46. Jason Cordova Thanks. I sometimes forget that. I’ve played too much insider baseball for too long.

    Edit: Also apparently too much french canadian at times as well. I forget s and add e … which I think I did both on this small post.

  47. Echoing Jason Cordova; I have no idea what their history is, or honestly, what their track record was prior to this conversation appearing. so why does it feel like it could be a PR stunt? Because we’ve seen this same situation too often: “get some submissions, reward one of them, claim ownership of all submitted work” rinse repeat.

    I’m just cynical of the system in general, and suspicious of any “group” that’s more than 2-3 people I know working together. It’s symptomatic.

  48. Echoing Jason Cordova; I have no idea what their history is, or honestly, what their track record was prior to this conversation appearing. so why does it feel like it could be a PR stunt? Because we’ve seen this same situation too often: “get some submissions, reward one of them, claim ownership of all submitted work” rinse repeat.

    I’m just cynical of the system in general, and suspicious of any “group” that’s more than 2-3 people I know working together. It’s symptomatic.

  49. Thanks, Kate Bullock, for posting that from Nicole. It obviates my worries about the contest framing entirely. It seems like this was a clever attempt to make sure they could get women without running afoul of employment regulations.

  50. Thanks, Kate Bullock, for posting that from Nicole. It obviates my worries about the contest framing entirely. It seems like this was a clever attempt to make sure they could get women without running afoul of employment regulations.

  51. Todd Crapper​​ due to the existing biases in our cultures, we do should specifically find and support creators who women, POC, queer, etc.

    Or basically what a bunch of others have already said.

  52. Todd Crapper​​ due to the existing biases in our cultures, we do should specifically find and support creators who women, POC, queer, etc.

    Or basically what a bunch of others have already said.

  59. As a woman who only got into writing for Onyx Path and Green Ronin, to name a few, BECAUSE of diversity all-calls, yes this is absolutely the right thing for Green Ronin to do. These sorts of diversity all-calls make the industry more diverse. Period.

    When David Hill did a call for women and enby and minorities to work on v20: Dark Ages, about half of the team ended up being women who had never previously worked for Onyx Path, or really done any other “legit” freelance game writing. And that game remains some of the work that I am most proud of that I have done to date.

    So as someone directly affected by these sorts of initiatives, yes they are good and yes it is worth it and yes it directly improves the quality of games.

  60. As a woman who only got into writing for Onyx Path and Green Ronin, to name a few, BECAUSE of diversity all-calls, yes this is absolutely the right thing for Green Ronin to do. These sorts of diversity all-calls make the industry more diverse. Period.

    When David Hill did a call for women and enby and minorities to work on v20: Dark Ages, about half of the team ended up being women who had never previously worked for Onyx Path, or really done any other “legit” freelance game writing. And that game remains some of the work that I am most proud of that I have done to date.

    So as someone directly affected by these sorts of initiatives, yes they are good and yes it is worth it and yes it directly improves the quality of games.

  63. Jason Cordova

    “But I do think the pitch is kind of weird. I re-read it as if it was pitched to POC or gay people (of which I am both) and I found it somewhat alienating.”

    I’m not pretending to understand what everyone else is saying, I’m no intellectual, but I wouldn’t be able to frame it the way Jason did. I take it with a grain of salt. Green Ronin has produced some great stuff. I don’t feel apathetic about political virtue signaling, I just find it distasteful. That’s my opinion. I just don’t feel that exploitation is not one of the driving motives behind any contest. Be that as it may, I also think there are some excellent designers out there that need an opportunity – I don’t really give a dam about sexual political orientation. That’s not “the why” I game.

  64. Jason Cordova

    “But I do think the pitch is kind of weird. I re-read it as if it was pitched to POC or gay people (of which I am both) and I found it somewhat alienating.”

    I’m not pretending to understand what everyone else is saying, I’m no intellectual, but I wouldn’t be able to frame it the way Jason did. I take it with a grain of salt. Green Ronin has produced some great stuff. I don’t feel apathetic about political virtue signaling, I just find it distasteful. That’s my opinion. I just don’t feel that exploitation is not one of the driving motives behind any contest. Be that as it may, I also think there are some excellent designers out there that need an opportunity – I don’t really give a dam about sexual political orientation. That’s not “the why” I game.

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