Problems with Paladins and how to Play them without Punishing your Pals.
read in a funny voice
Alignment nuts: “I had to murder that woman because she was running from the guards. She must have been evil, I’m obviously playing lawful good.”
Jerks playing Jerks: “First chance I get I tell the guards that you stole the mcguffin stone from their fortress. Did I mention that my character is constantly watching you guys to make sure you don’t break the law or do evil things? I have to because i am lawful good.”
Quest is game breaking: “This adventure is called Rage of the Fire God, so I want to start off with a quest to kill the fire god, dragon, whatever so I can be immune to fire. I was already planning to play lawful good so I don’t mind having to be honorable.”
I am the law sucks: “Why would I ever use this if the DM can attack me on a hit? Unrelated, but have I mentioned yet that I am lawful good?”
read in a slightly more serious voice
Like many people I have read about and experienced some pretty terrible sessions that centered around a player (often new to the group, often never appearing again) who eagerly grabbed up the paladin character sheet and then proceeded to be a huge pain both to the other players and their characters. I don’t have any advice for dealing with these players beyond telling them to stop or leave. Despite the joke-y quotes above, this is not a rant about alignment (see earlier rant). Instead I wanted to take a few minutes to give my perspective on how to play the paladin in a way that is fun for you and the other players. The move specific parts are for Dungeon world but most of the attitude stuff should be universal.
Fundamentally the paladin is a warrior (not always armed or armored) who believes and fights for something. This something can be a god or religious belief. It could be the authority of the king, church, government, or other organization. It could be as simple as their own code of ethics or chivalry. But wait, how do they cast magic if not in service to a god? The answer is: You tell me, but honestly this is a magic fantasy land so pretty much anything works. Maybe their lay-on-hands is completely mundane and shows their skills as a medic or inspiring leader.
The trick to playing the paladin right (IMO) is in sticking to this belief, being honest about and eager to explore situations where it becomes inconvenient, and not forcing your burden on your friends.
(note: the following antidote probably greatly simplifies and misrepresents a whole branch of philosophy)
A philosophy of law student might tell you that Spock is a utilitarian, believing the right action is always the one that maximizes good for the majority, when he says “the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few” and sacrifices himself to save the ship. You should point out that Spock sacrifices himself, instead of pushing a much less mission critical red shirts into the radiation chamber to die. Maybe Spock even took the time to way out the value of his life verses the ensign to the survival of the ship and crew, before making his choice, maybe not. His choice and actions makes him an epic hero, not a mindless ethics equation. Then neck pinch that jerk into unconsciousness as punishment for soiling the good name of Spock.
No one wants to hangout with or trust a mindless psycho robot who is only waiting to entangle them in its personal hang ups. No band of adventures would tolerate this behavior in the group. But people can respect and appreciate the person who holds themselves to a high standard, who doesn’t back down or abandon their principles and doesn’t force their beliefs on their friends. Play the paladin when you want to be the epic hero, the shining knight. The one who stands alone against the hopeless threat while others make their escape. Who exchanges themselves for the hostage. Who does the job to the end despite the costs. You might die heroically, or succeed epic-ly, or you might have an amazing scene where your friends decide to stand with you. This is the right way to play the Paladin.
Meta-Gaming-wise, this is the reason the paladin has so many defensive / survival and leadership moves. They are designed for hard use. Feel free to armor up before making your stand and asking the GM to give your their best shot. Be useful and inspiring to your friends and they might follow you, or at least launch a rescue later. You may even feel the need to retire the character when they have to go it alone, or face judgment while the party runs off. Give them an epilogue, roll a new character and maybe bring them back in a future game. They can be even more epic after suffering punishment or completing a hard quest alone.
On the subject of the Dungeon World Quest move: it is very tempting to try to abuse it as a player, or nerf it as a GM. The most obvious benefit is the immunity to some type of damage.
As a player I would only suggest that you occasionally pick something else. Challenge yourself to get benefit and great fiction out of the other choices. Pick it when it makes sense, but don’t force a quest just for this benefit.
More to the point, your paladin should always be on a quest in fiction but maybe you should wait to engage the move when fictionally appropriate. Maybe your party was just betrayed or the bad guy just showed up and wrecked your face. Describe what it looks like when you recover and take a moment to go through a personal ritual swearing a quest of vengeance. Maybe a friend just died and you take some memento and attach it to your armor. Later the monster that slew them is surprised when its attack doesn’t affect you. Maybe you are literally talking to a god and in accepting its quest you ask for a couple boons like a voice that transcends language or a mark of its divine authority.
As a GM I would suggest that you not worry to much about “Game Breaking” its the players job to be epic and your job to be a fan of it when it happens. Alternatively you do have to keep the adventure interesting. Do not immediately go into your notes and replace every bandit sword with a club, or fire breathing dragon with a acid spitting one. Do ask the player what it looks like when they ignore this damage and what it might imply in fiction. Maybe the enemies decide to ignore what they can not hurt and go after easier prey. maybe the shattering blade trap makes a lot of noise and attracts attention. Maybe the party must split while the paladin swims the acid lake and they are both attacked, the paladin must fight alone and the others must survive without their tank.
On the subject of the dungeon world I am the Law move: it is hard to immediately see the benefit of this move over a defy danger with charisma. It is important to remember that the GM should be a fan of your character and not just out to kill you. This doesn’t mean that they will never pick the “They attack you” option but they shouldn’t pick it all the time. More importantly, and going back to my earlier talk about playing epic-ly, you should engage this move when your paladin is willing to be attacked. Maybe they are willing to risk it in order to spare their friends, or they simply believe strongly that trying to end a conflict, or give a command is important enough to risk danger. Some of the most powerful moves in Dungeon world are the ones that are always dangerous even on a 10+.
Meta-gaming wise: Attacking you is not always fictional appropriate. An armored knight waving a holy symbol, giving orders to a non hostile villager is unlikely to result in a mob (not guaranteed). Maybe in the middle of a siege, the NPC Rookie guardsmen hesitate to follow the instructions of another party member, that is when you grab them, stand them up and remind them of their duty and your holy authority. They might run away but it’s less likely they will attack in any immediate way. Finally, I always turn to this move when I can’t imagine anything else working. The monster has incapacitated your friends and shrugs off your best strikes, you have nothing to turn to but your beliefs. Hold forth your holy symbol and hope you roll well… Your GM may appreciate your boldness, failing that they may let your friends escape.
Sorry for the long post. Let me know what you think. Have any great stories of heroic paladins? Have any problems with other moves on the Paladin sheet? Am I totally wrong and the only correct way to play the paladin is as Judge Dread?
I should also point out that it is perfectly fair for the GM or other players to say: I don’t think the current situation or your expressed motives justify the move yet.
IE: try harder
I should also point out that it is perfectly fair for the GM or other players to say: I don’t think the current situation or your expressed motives justify the move yet.
IE: try harder
Not to toot my own horn…okay, totally tooting my own horn, but I play a pretty good paladin.
Alignments are guidelines. Not walls.
I think most of the time the “holy” classes are just played by assholes that are using the archetype as an excuse to be an acceptable asshole in game (cue someone whining IM JUST PLAYING MY CHARACTER).
I feel like paladins have a patrons God, and their mission is to be the person their deity would want them to be. The best person they can be.
Not to toot my own horn…okay, totally tooting my own horn, but I play a pretty good paladin.
Alignments are guidelines. Not walls.
I think most of the time the “holy” classes are just played by assholes that are using the archetype as an excuse to be an acceptable asshole in game (cue someone whining IM JUST PLAYING MY CHARACTER).
I feel like paladins have a patrons God, and their mission is to be the person their deity would want them to be. The best person they can be.
That quote is from Flight of Dragons.
I owe all of my interest in RPGs to that film.
That quote is from Flight of Dragons.
I owe all of my interest in RPGs to that film.
Also one of my favorites, right up there with The Last Unicorn!
I’m running a pbp right now and the hero is very much a paladin, though he’s not technically that playbook.He always talks first unless innocents are in danger, even if it makes things harder in the long run. He smites the unrepentantly wicked, and he helps those who do repent to take their first stumbling steps on the path to redemption. He makes the hard choices so nobody else has to.
The “still one last life of pain” part just sums it up very well, I think. He’s not a paladin because he slavishly follows principles, he’s a paladin because he seeks to offer compassion, even if punishment is almost inevitable.
I never ‘got’ paladins before this game, to be honest.
Also one of my favorites, right up there with The Last Unicorn!
I’m running a pbp right now and the hero is very much a paladin, though he’s not technically that playbook.He always talks first unless innocents are in danger, even if it makes things harder in the long run. He smites the unrepentantly wicked, and he helps those who do repent to take their first stumbling steps on the path to redemption. He makes the hard choices so nobody else has to.
The “still one last life of pain” part just sums it up very well, I think. He’s not a paladin because he slavishly follows principles, he’s a paladin because he seeks to offer compassion, even if punishment is almost inevitable.
I never ‘got’ paladins before this game, to be honest.
Thanks Yochai Gal now i know what i will be doing for the next hour and thirty five minutes.
Thanks Yochai Gal now i know what i will be doing for the next hour and thirty five minutes.
worth it
worth it
I had never seen this movie before but it is exactly what I envision when talking about the epic paladin (at least in this scene) youtube.com – Flight of Dragons – the final battle between Sir Orrin Neville-Smythe and Bryagh
I had never seen this movie before but it is exactly what I envision when talking about the epic paladin (at least in this scene) youtube.com – Flight of Dragons – the final battle between Sir Orrin Neville-Smythe and Bryagh
I actually own the Gordon R. Dickinson book its based off of but never read it.
I actually own the Gordon R. Dickinson book its based off of but never read it.
The book has a sentimental place in my heart; I don’t know if it has quite held up over time, but it was one of my favorites. The movie is very distilled and adapted — I would consider them two different things, both great.
The book has a sentimental place in my heart; I don’t know if it has quite held up over time, but it was one of my favorites. The movie is very distilled and adapted — I would consider them two different things, both great.
For a totally different take on it…Don Quixote is a paladin.
For a totally different take on it…Don Quixote is a paladin.