I’m new here. Thanks for the add. Now a question.
Dungeon World with kids… what’s everyone’s experience with it?
I’ve run some far-too-seldom sessions with my daughters (12 and 15 now, but going back to when they were 12 and 9) and their friends.
One thing I’ve noticed is that for character and world-building, they’re FANTASTIC. They love coming up with details for all of that.
For the gaming itself, though they’re creative and love the story-telling aspect, it seems they need to be held “on the rail” more than I would ever dream about with experienced players. The story needs exact goals, and the flexibility that DW adds may be a bit too much — at least right off. (I need to get them into more constant play, but getting a group of teens together consistently is challenging, to say the least)
Does anyone have any experience, advice with this? I’d be interested to hear what you did and how it went. I think that DW is an amazing game, but with some special challenges when it comes to people who need to be “directed more” (ie, “kids”)
I have many thoughts on this, but don’t have time to respond yet. Just looping in to the convo.
I have many thoughts on this, but don’t have time to respond yet. Just looping in to the convo.
My advice is to go where they take you. If they aren’t sticking to the story, it’s probably not the story they’re interested in. The DW rules will guide you. Throw some trouble at them and ask a lot of questions. They’ll probably surprise you with a cool story you never expected.
My advice is to go where they take you. If they aren’t sticking to the story, it’s probably not the story they’re interested in. The DW rules will guide you. Throw some trouble at them and ask a lot of questions. They’ll probably surprise you with a cool story you never expected.
DW with kidz works very well. You can tone it down rules-wise easily.
Just one move (Defy Dangers), no playbooks, etc. Its all about the fiction first. I even played in the car with dices in a bowl and mini character sheets. I GM as I drive :-). The Last Breath rule offers a chance to tone down the harshness of dying for kids IMO.
You can also look into a minimalist version called World of Dungeons.. Jason Cordova is a big fan of that ruleset and uses it to run lots of converted OSR modules.
http://www.onesevendesign.com/dw/world_of_dungeons_1979_bw.pdf
We have a ton of AP videos on The Gauntlet channel if you want to get a feel for some gameplay examples. 🙂
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9QoUve1LQHu_feDx0snd4w
Welcome to The Gauntlet!
DW with kidz works very well. You can tone it down rules-wise easily.
Just one move (Defy Dangers), no playbooks, etc. Its all about the fiction first. I even played in the car with dices in a bowl and mini character sheets. I GM as I drive :-). The Last Breath rule offers a chance to tone down the harshness of dying for kids IMO.
You can also look into a minimalist version called World of Dungeons.. Jason Cordova is a big fan of that ruleset and uses it to run lots of converted OSR modules.
http://www.onesevendesign.com/dw/world_of_dungeons_1979_bw.pdf
We have a ton of AP videos on The Gauntlet channel if you want to get a feel for some gameplay examples. 🙂
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9QoUve1LQHu_feDx0snd4w
Welcome to The Gauntlet!
Doh! I forgot to say welcome! Glad you’re here!
Doh! I forgot to say welcome! Glad you’re here!
Logan Howard It isn’t really an issue of sticking to the story/not sticking to the story (I love DW for precisely that purpose). It was more an issue of getting a story started to begin with.
With one of the groups, one of the kids decided that, rather than try to help a group of people that were beset by goblins, she was going to take off running. Which prompted everyone ELSE to take off running. This was the first encounter.
Not exactly adventure fodder for that one. (Though I did think of a great way to handle the situation, but too late)
Which is why I’m thinking that, with kids at least, you NEED to provide a better framework for the story than the general “go where it takes you” approach I tend to take with adults when playing DW.
If the kids were experienced with RPGs, then it might be less of an issue, but from the perspective of new to RPGs and younger players, I’ve definitely had better luck with a better-guided storyline.
I had great luck, for instance, with my daughter and a couple other friends (not the runner) when they designed the world and then I provided a very clear first few goals before they took off on their own.
Logan Howard It isn’t really an issue of sticking to the story/not sticking to the story (I love DW for precisely that purpose). It was more an issue of getting a story started to begin with.
With one of the groups, one of the kids decided that, rather than try to help a group of people that were beset by goblins, she was going to take off running. Which prompted everyone ELSE to take off running. This was the first encounter.
Not exactly adventure fodder for that one. (Though I did think of a great way to handle the situation, but too late)
Which is why I’m thinking that, with kids at least, you NEED to provide a better framework for the story than the general “go where it takes you” approach I tend to take with adults when playing DW.
If the kids were experienced with RPGs, then it might be less of an issue, but from the perspective of new to RPGs and younger players, I’ve definitely had better luck with a better-guided storyline.
I had great luck, for instance, with my daughter and a couple other friends (not the runner) when they designed the world and then I provided a very clear first few goals before they took off on their own.
That’s a great insight. Having them help set up the world makes it more personal when it’s threatened.
The running away thing sounds like a tricky one. Did the goblins pursue?
That’s a great insight. Having them help set up the world makes it more personal when it’s threatened.
The running away thing sounds like a tricky one. Did the goblins pursue?
Maxime Lacoste Thanks for the videos. I’ll be sure to check those out. (I’ve been playing DW for a while with adults, but I always love to see how different people handle different aspects and learn new things. I’m here because I started listening to Discern Realities the other day)
The rules weren’t a huge issue, especially with my kids, who were 9 and 12 when we started this, so they were definitely big enough to understand the playbooks. (With the older kids helping the younger when needed. If they were younger when I tried this, I definitely would have used that Defy Danger advice — it’s a nice, clean way to handle the game.)
Maxime Lacoste Thanks for the videos. I’ll be sure to check those out. (I’ve been playing DW for a while with adults, but I always love to see how different people handle different aspects and learn new things. I’m here because I started listening to Discern Realities the other day)
The rules weren’t a huge issue, especially with my kids, who were 9 and 12 when we started this, so they were definitely big enough to understand the playbooks. (With the older kids helping the younger when needed. If they were younger when I tried this, I definitely would have used that Defy Danger advice — it’s a nice, clean way to handle the game.)
Logan Howard I couldn’t think of a good way to warrant it, as the goblins were attacking a caravan at the time and the supposed heroes just turned tail and ran 🙂
My solution was to make it a little more “restrictive” in that one of the goblins yelled “STOP!” and everyone froze, unable to move. The goblin, as it turned out, was a god of sorts, not really a goblin at all, but testing the heroes which they clearly failed. It would then cast them into another plane where their only goal would be to “escape” (of course giving them ample opportunity to prove themselves true heroes in the process)
Unfortunately, just as I came up with this idea, parents showed up to pick up a couple of the kids, and I never got to do it.
Logan Howard I couldn’t think of a good way to warrant it, as the goblins were attacking a caravan at the time and the supposed heroes just turned tail and ran 🙂
My solution was to make it a little more “restrictive” in that one of the goblins yelled “STOP!” and everyone froze, unable to move. The goblin, as it turned out, was a god of sorts, not really a goblin at all, but testing the heroes which they clearly failed. It would then cast them into another plane where their only goal would be to “escape” (of course giving them ample opportunity to prove themselves true heroes in the process)
Unfortunately, just as I came up with this idea, parents showed up to pick up a couple of the kids, and I never got to do it.
I like that.
I like that.
If you need to marry the players to the situation, a great way is to ask really directed questions. For example, if you wanted to try and hook your players into conflict with the goblins, you might ask one of them “You recognize the scars on one of those goblins as the same as a goblin rumored to have hurt a loved one. Who was hurt, and how does seeing this goblin here make you feel.” then ask another player “These goblins are rumored to have something valuable you are looking for. What is it that you are looking for, and what are you willing to do to find out if these goblins have it?” and so on. This is also a great way to tie the party together if you are worried they will end up having conflict with one another.
If you need to marry the players to the situation, a great way is to ask really directed questions. For example, if you wanted to try and hook your players into conflict with the goblins, you might ask one of them “You recognize the scars on one of those goblins as the same as a goblin rumored to have hurt a loved one. Who was hurt, and how does seeing this goblin here make you feel.” then ask another player “These goblins are rumored to have something valuable you are looking for. What is it that you are looking for, and what are you willing to do to find out if these goblins have it?” and so on. This is also a great way to tie the party together if you are worried they will end up having conflict with one another.
I had a cyberpunk game a long time ago and couldn’t get the players to latch on to any of my adventure hooks. The game turned into a night-club management scenario but the players could hardly wait to get back to that club! While I was fretting over not having any plot, they were just excited to see who would walk in next. Eventually they were in love with the club enough that they were willing to take risks to protect and improve it.
I had a cyberpunk game a long time ago and couldn’t get the players to latch on to any of my adventure hooks. The game turned into a night-club management scenario but the players could hardly wait to get back to that club! While I was fretting over not having any plot, they were just excited to see who would walk in next. Eventually they were in love with the club enough that they were willing to take risks to protect and improve it.
David LaFreniere always has great ideas!
David LaFreniere always has great ideas!
David LaFreniere That’s actually some great advice. I don’t know that the “selfless” question would have worked (this group did just take off running instead of helping a bunch of people in trouble), but the more “selfish” approach may have.
I think the running took me aback more than anything. I’ve run into the normal “let’s go down this non-descript alley instead of into that highly-detailed temple” that every GM has ever run into, but never a situation where everyone turns tail and runs at the first sign of trouble. That was a first, and I admittedly wasn’t even a little prepared for it.
I was half tempted to say “As you run away, the earth opens before you, and you fall into a river of lava.” Probably not the best solution 🙂
David LaFreniere That’s actually some great advice. I don’t know that the “selfless” question would have worked (this group did just take off running instead of helping a bunch of people in trouble), but the more “selfish” approach may have.
I think the running took me aback more than anything. I’ve run into the normal “let’s go down this non-descript alley instead of into that highly-detailed temple” that every GM has ever run into, but never a situation where everyone turns tail and runs at the first sign of trouble. That was a first, and I admittedly wasn’t even a little prepared for it.
I was half tempted to say “As you run away, the earth opens before you, and you fall into a river of lava.” Probably not the best solution 🙂
Ouch on the cyberpunk game, but it sounds like it turned into something memorable and fun, so it definitely served its purpose (though I can imagine you thinking “Really?!” when it first happened)
Ouch on the cyberpunk game, but it sounds like it turned into something memorable and fun, so it definitely served its purpose (though I can imagine you thinking “Really?!” when it first happened)
There is a hack of Dungeon World specifically for kids called Dungeon drive.google.com – Dungeons RPG.pdf
There is a hack of Dungeon World specifically for kids called Dungeon drive.google.com – Dungeons RPG.pdf
I run Dungeon World with kids at conventions and museums and the only added structure I’ve had to use is a simple turn system for combat or intense situations just to make sure no one dominates at the table. That said, getting kids to go the same direction takes a fair bit of set up, and dungeon world is great because it’s easy for me to ask them what their situation and goals are and then just throw in a wrench. I’m seconding the Leading Questions or Directed Questions approach – the more ownership they have of their trouble, the likelier it seems to me that they’ll take it seriously.
I run Dungeon World with kids at conventions and museums and the only added structure I’ve had to use is a simple turn system for combat or intense situations just to make sure no one dominates at the table. That said, getting kids to go the same direction takes a fair bit of set up, and dungeon world is great because it’s easy for me to ask them what their situation and goals are and then just throw in a wrench. I’m seconding the Leading Questions or Directed Questions approach – the more ownership they have of their trouble, the likelier it seems to me that they’ll take it seriously.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/V1mV4OZkNKPGYVd8r1EGdp5tFYiAY-d7SqTKRE3NrgiSHtOG8Qbi3ntw1NGHySyvCRHpb9mKqh9v1_vuTxRQe39A7fmJRyE8l0A=s0
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/SfEQyaOQbExlB6vumBl_MB0tL6rQwk3y6hdvr4SEbYLlIqCUDYO97lG2AFO0YC_TVCpBfFU3E_UA5IHkgiucrD2t0OFcqoJRIUk=s0
One other thing to consider: difference in risk perception. This was the source of some communication issues early in my DW campaign. We had played d&d ten years ago, but when picking up rpgs again, we started with dungeon world. They where scared shirtless when confronting five linnorm people (reskinned orcs for my nordic world). I had to sit them down and explain that though they were first level, they were heroes. Much less frail than 1st lvl dnd characters.
One other thing to consider: difference in risk perception. This was the source of some communication issues early in my DW campaign. We had played d&d ten years ago, but when picking up rpgs again, we started with dungeon world. They where scared shirtless when confronting five linnorm people (reskinned orcs for my nordic world). I had to sit them down and explain that though they were first level, they were heroes. Much less frail than 1st lvl dnd characters.
This probably applies to tweens as well, perhaps even more so if they don’t have experience with rpg games (tabletop or computer really). If you don’t know the threat level, it’s hard to assess if this is a threat you can deal with.
This probably applies to tweens as well, perhaps even more so if they don’t have experience with rpg games (tabletop or computer really). If you don’t know the threat level, it’s hard to assess if this is a threat you can deal with.
Asher Silberman Thanks, Asher, but the mechanics weren’t the problem… even a year and a half ago (roughly the time this ill-fated game occurred), the kids, then 10 and 13 or so, could handle the game fine… it was more other problems. That said, if I end up playing with younger players (I still have some friends with smaller kids, though those are getting fewer and farther between), that looks like an excellent resource.
R Shel Kahn and Asbjørn H Flø — Those are both some great pieces of advice. The main reason the question is coming up now is because, after a year in a small apartment, we’re finally back in a big house, so I’ll finally get the chance to GM for my kids and their friends again, and I don’t want the same situation to arise. This has all been fantastic information to play the game with kids while still keeping it “Dungeon World”
Asher Silberman Thanks, Asher, but the mechanics weren’t the problem… even a year and a half ago (roughly the time this ill-fated game occurred), the kids, then 10 and 13 or so, could handle the game fine… it was more other problems. That said, if I end up playing with younger players (I still have some friends with smaller kids, though those are getting fewer and farther between), that looks like an excellent resource.
R Shel Kahn and Asbjørn H Flø — Those are both some great pieces of advice. The main reason the question is coming up now is because, after a year in a small apartment, we’re finally back in a big house, so I’ll finally get the chance to GM for my kids and their friends again, and I don’t want the same situation to arise. This has all been fantastic information to play the game with kids while still keeping it “Dungeon World”