Gauntlet Hangouts Expectations and B-Side Games

Gauntlet Hangouts Expectations and B-Side Games

Gauntlet Hangouts Expectations and B-Side Games

Hi Everyone!

We haven’t had a good chat about Gauntlet Hangouts in awhile, and since it has been growing like crazy, it’s probably a good time to do so.

Let’s talk about expectations. If you sign up for a game, you are telling the game runner: “Please use your valuable time to prepare a session for me.” When you cancel an RSVP, even for a very good reason, you may have wasted the GM’s time. Life happens, I get that; no one is asking anyone to sacrifice more than a little bit of their free time to play in a game. But if you find yourself repeatedly having to cancel your RSVPs, you definitely need to make an honest appraisal of whether the Gauntlet Hangouts calendar is a good fit for you. It could be that you instead sign up on some waitlists, or maybe you try to get in some off-the-books games being organized in Slack (for those of you in our Slack). And if you do have to cancel an RSVP, please make an effort, either on Slack or G+, to get your seat filled.

For GMs, if you put something on the calendar, you have even more pressure to make sure a game happens. I occasionally have to cancel a session, but usually only for highly exceptional circumstances (and even then, I feel like shit about it). If you have a few people missing from your session, that is not a good reason to cancel it. When you signed up to be a GM on our calendar, you committed to an open table play culture. And part of being in that play culture is that you have to learn to be a little flexible. Now, there are lots of great tips and tricks for making a session of an ongoing campaign work with missing players, and I invite folks to share some of those tips in the comments. But for my part, I want to talk about something different…

B-Side Games

I want everyone in Gauntlet Hangouts, GMs and players alike, to consider their RPG toolbox. Speaking for myself, I have about a half-dozen games in my toolbox that fit the following criteria: 1) I know the rules cold, 2) I have online play sheets ready to grab and go, 3) they work well as a one-shot, and 4) they work well for smaller groups. I’m calling these my B-Side games. In other words, we all purchased “We Will Rock You,” but “We Are the Champions” turned out to be a good song, too.

For the GM, B-Side games are really important. They are one of the things that make you a well-rounded, rockstar GM. And think about it: the players who did show up really deserve your efforts here. Trust me: they came to play a game. I’m sure they’ll be a little bummed out about not getting “Hello, Goodbye,” but you’re going to give them “I Am the Walrus” instead, and it might blow their fucking minds.

But I’m looking at players here, too: Just because you don’t run games on Gauntlet Hangouts doesn’t mean you’re not an important part of this community. I want to encourage you to develop your own list of B-Sides. What if the GM has to cancel for some reason? There’s no reason the players shouldn’t still have fun. What if, as above, a couple people drop, making it hard to continue the campaign that session? Turn it into an opportunity to try out that weird little GM-less game you have wanted to get to the table for awhile.

In short, being a good, giving member of the Gauntlet Hangouts community means being prepared and being able to adjust.

Anyway, I encourage you all to discuss this in the comments. As always, please be kind to each other, and please don’t make this about you. If you have had to cancel some RSVPs lately, or you had to cancel a session, we’re not asking you to chime in and explain yourself. This is a broader discussion than that.

(And thanks to Maxime, Maria, and Mathias for helping with the B-Side concept).

Cc: Lowell Francis

96 thoughts on “Gauntlet Hangouts Expectations and B-Side Games”

  1. As part of this discussion, I want to remind you that tips for making an ongoing campaign work with a missing player are very welcome here. We talk about this kind of thing a lot on our podcasts, but I’d like to hear from other folks, too.

  2. As part of this discussion, I want to remind you that tips for making an ongoing campaign work with a missing player are very welcome here. We talk about this kind of thing a lot on our podcasts, but I’d like to hear from other folks, too.

  3. Great advice. If you have to cancel, the earlier you do so, the better that is for the other players and the GM. It gives them a chance to orient new participants ahead of time.

    Most of our games are relatively short– 2 1/2 to 3 hour, with some time eaten up by technical issues. And most games, on average, run four sessions. That means GMs and players both have to be proactive. Players: help point the GM to the fun you want and be ready to have your characters do things. Skeptical, isolated, and naysaying characters can be interesting, but remember the time frame. The GM should also be looking and asking for what fun the players are looking for.

    All that being said, give sessions the room to breathe. I have a bad habit of moving things at a breakneck pace. That can be cool, but sometimes that can feel like a whirlwind and not be as satisfying. Some of the best feedback I got came from Rich after a particularly anime and high action session– yes, lots of cool things happened and he got to do stuff, but he (and everyone else) didn’t get a chance to live in their character.

  4. Great advice. If you have to cancel, the earlier you do so, the better that is for the other players and the GM. It gives them a chance to orient new participants ahead of time.

    Most of our games are relatively short– 2 1/2 to 3 hour, with some time eaten up by technical issues. And most games, on average, run four sessions. That means GMs and players both have to be proactive. Players: help point the GM to the fun you want and be ready to have your characters do things. Skeptical, isolated, and naysaying characters can be interesting, but remember the time frame. The GM should also be looking and asking for what fun the players are looking for.

    All that being said, give sessions the room to breathe. I have a bad habit of moving things at a breakneck pace. That can be cool, but sometimes that can feel like a whirlwind and not be as satisfying. Some of the best feedback I got came from Rich after a particularly anime and high action session– yes, lots of cool things happened and he got to do stuff, but he (and everyone else) didn’t get a chance to live in their character.

  5. When you drop it pulls the next person up. At that point the GM gets an email that the new player has joined. I don’t know if that player is emailed as well. I usually ask in my event description and week ahead alerts that people contact me if their schedule changes. Some do.

  6. When you drop it pulls the next person up. At that point the GM gets an email that the new player has joined. I don’t know if that player is emailed as well. I usually ask in my event description and week ahead alerts that people contact me if their schedule changes. Some do.

  7. Jim Crocker If I have a drop the day before or later, and someone moves off the Waitlist, I don’t have an expectation that the waitlisted person will show. It’s nice if they do, and I try to check in if I can, but I plan for them not to be there.

    As for an un-RSVP, I think a quick email to the GM is highly appreciated.

  8. Jim Crocker If I have a drop the day before or later, and someone moves off the Waitlist, I don’t have an expectation that the waitlisted person will show. It’s nice if they do, and I try to check in if I can, but I plan for them not to be there.

    As for an un-RSVP, I think a quick email to the GM is highly appreciated.

  9. I was also wondering about best practices and general expectations for being on the wait list, so I’m interested in hearing how other folks feel about this and how they are handling it.

  10. I was also wondering about best practices and general expectations for being on the wait list, so I’m interested in hearing how other folks feel about this and how they are handling it.

  11. Agreed. If it’s a habitual thing signing up for a ton of games and not being able to make the sessions a lot, it’s probably just not for you unfortunately.

    People getting in via waitlist frequently indicate a bunch of folks must be signing up liberally, not sure if they’re able to show up or not and thinking the waitlist will cover then. But the problem is that not that many end up waitlisting, they’ll sign up initially then cancel the waitlist, thinking they’ll never get in anyways and sign up for a game that isn’t full, instead.

  12. Agreed. If it’s a habitual thing signing up for a ton of games and not being able to make the sessions a lot, it’s probably just not for you unfortunately.

    People getting in via waitlist frequently indicate a bunch of folks must be signing up liberally, not sure if they’re able to show up or not and thinking the waitlist will cover then. But the problem is that not that many end up waitlisting, they’ll sign up initially then cancel the waitlist, thinking they’ll never get in anyways and sign up for a game that isn’t full, instead.

  13. David LaFreniere saved my bacon in my early Gauntletting with a B-side game of DW using that sly little “trailer” mechanic. To the skeptical: what Jason is talking about actually works really really well in practice.

  14. David LaFreniere saved my bacon in my early Gauntletting with a B-side game of DW using that sly little “trailer” mechanic. To the skeptical: what Jason is talking about actually works really really well in practice.

  15. A best practice, if on the wait list, might be to take yourself off the wait list at or before the point it’d be too last minute for you.

    And if you stay on the wait list right up to game time, be ready to play. Otherwise, take your name off as soon as you know that won’t be an option any longer.

  16. A best practice, if on the wait list, might be to take yourself off the wait list at or before the point it’d be too last minute for you.

    And if you stay on the wait list right up to game time, be ready to play. Otherwise, take your name off as soon as you know that won’t be an option any longer.

  17. Also: I am gathering a list of changes for the RSVP site to give to the developer, sort of an annual update thing. If there is anything we can do from the site side to minimize issues associated with cancellations, here might be a great place to suggest it.

  18. Also: I am gathering a list of changes for the RSVP site to give to the developer, sort of an annual update thing. If there is anything we can do from the site side to minimize issues associated with cancellations, here might be a great place to suggest it.

  19. A dedicated discord channel could work here I think. Make it mandatory for all participants to join the channel and use it to communicate any game related topics. Rsvp and waitlist changes, sending game hangouts urls invite, etc. Like the gauntlet g+ and gauntlet hangouts g+ it could be a second separate group with different channels created for each individual games to limit losing info in crowded chatter.

  20. A dedicated discord channel could work here I think. Make it mandatory for all participants to join the channel and use it to communicate any game related topics. Rsvp and waitlist changes, sending game hangouts urls invite, etc. Like the gauntlet g+ and gauntlet hangouts g+ it could be a second separate group with different channels created for each individual games to limit losing info in crowded chatter.

  21. Jason Cordova Ya I also use hangouts chat but sometimes for weird reason peoples email dont show in there. But I agree, no reason to reinvente the wheel or overcomplicate things.

  22. Jason Cordova Ya I also use hangouts chat but sometimes for weird reason peoples email dont show in there. But I agree, no reason to reinvente the wheel or overcomplicate things.

  23. There is a MASSIVE difference just in the timing of cancellations. If you cancel a week or two in advance, not a big deal, pretty easy to get in touch with the waitlist and get someone to fill on a session. If you cancel a couple hours before or just no show, it becomes much harder to fill your seat. So please keep an eye on your schedule and if you have to cancel, do it as soon as you see the issue coming.

    A few games that can work really well for B-Sides (ok, this is just my personal list of games I’m prepared to run at any time):

    Final Girl

    Cheat Your Own Adventure

    Fiasco

    Lady Blackbird

    Dungeon World

    Monsterhearts

  24. There is a MASSIVE difference just in the timing of cancellations. If you cancel a week or two in advance, not a big deal, pretty easy to get in touch with the waitlist and get someone to fill on a session. If you cancel a couple hours before or just no show, it becomes much harder to fill your seat. So please keep an eye on your schedule and if you have to cancel, do it as soon as you see the issue coming.

    A few games that can work really well for B-Sides (ok, this is just my personal list of games I’m prepared to run at any time):

    Final Girl

    Cheat Your Own Adventure

    Fiasco

    Lady Blackbird

    Dungeon World

    Monsterhearts

  25. And yeah, mustering in hangouts a few days in advance is pretty crucial to getting everybody on board. Everybody should keep an eye on firebase, but if you’re running a session, it’s definitely well-advised to get everybody in one place ahead of time

  26. And yeah, mustering in hangouts a few days in advance is pretty crucial to getting everybody on board. Everybody should keep an eye on firebase, but if you’re running a session, it’s definitely well-advised to get everybody in one place ahead of time

  27. Jason Cordova For the RSVP site: I’m not sure if it’s a widespread issue, but I’ve only gotten a notice for every other RSVP to my posted games so far, and my RSVPed game reminder emails list the game’s local time instead of my account’s time, which can cause some last minute panic as I wonder if I carved out the wrong time block.

  28. Jason Cordova For the RSVP site: I’m not sure if it’s a widespread issue, but I’ve only gotten a notice for every other RSVP to my posted games so far, and my RSVPed game reminder emails list the game’s local time instead of my account’s time, which can cause some last minute panic as I wonder if I carved out the wrong time block.

  29. Chris Shorb You narrate four or five key scenes in brief, like a film trailer. Then you play the game in an attempt to hit those scenes. Someone really clever, maybe Ray Otis, devised it.

  30. Chris Shorb You narrate four or five key scenes in brief, like a film trailer. Then you play the game in an attempt to hit those scenes. Someone really clever, maybe Ray Otis, devised it.

  31. Ryan McNeil, the email system to my knowledge is pretty new, I think under 2 months, so there may still be some bugs in it. It won’t list your local time in the emails (I did ask about it) and it’s currently beyond the system’s capabilities, but it does include a time conversion link as well as the scheduling listing which also converts time. Personally I also like to create google events to provide the extra notifications, but that was a habit from before the emails were instituted. From my experience, I’ve been getting emails about 1 week and 1 day before each event.

  32. Ryan McNeil, the email system to my knowledge is pretty new, I think under 2 months, so there may still be some bugs in it. It won’t list your local time in the emails (I did ask about it) and it’s currently beyond the system’s capabilities, but it does include a time conversion link as well as the scheduling listing which also converts time. Personally I also like to create google events to provide the extra notifications, but that was a habit from before the emails were instituted. From my experience, I’ve been getting emails about 1 week and 1 day before each event.

  33. David Rothfeder Ah, cool. The initial RSVP confirmation emails adapt to my time zone, and for a little while the confirmation emails did (I think?), so I wasn’t sure what all was possible or buggy where. I get them a week + a couple days and a couple days before, but I think that’s just time weirdness.

  34. David Rothfeder Ah, cool. The initial RSVP confirmation emails adapt to my time zone, and for a little while the confirmation emails did (I think?), so I wasn’t sure what all was possible or buggy where. I get them a week + a couple days and a couple days before, but I think that’s just time weirdness.

  35. Thanks Jason Cordova, I do have a follow question on the RSVP issue. With fast filling events, I will sometimes RSVP first and check schedule second. I’ll never drop a game with less than a week’s advance notice, and will never drop a game that does not have a wait list unless I have an unavoidable conflict and absolutely cannot make that game. Is that consideration enough or is the preference to make sure of absolute commitment before signing up?

  36. Thanks Jason Cordova, I do have a follow question on the RSVP issue. With fast filling events, I will sometimes RSVP first and check schedule second. I’ll never drop a game with less than a week’s advance notice, and will never drop a game that does not have a wait list unless I have an unavoidable conflict and absolutely cannot make that game. Is that consideration enough or is the preference to make sure of absolute commitment before signing up?

  37. Ryan McNeil We have known about the email confirmation bug for some time. We may just cancel that feature in favor of the new email thing that Shane Liebling set up, which, to my knowledge, has no such bug.

  38. Ryan McNeil We have known about the email confirmation bug for some time. We may just cancel that feature in favor of the new email thing that Shane Liebling set up, which, to my knowledge, has no such bug.

  39. Vincent Eaton I mean, do whatever you need to do to be a good citizen. If you cancel your RSVP early, it’s not a big deal. Our community is robust enough to get the spot filled. A week is no big deal for my games. If I have at least a day, I can get spaces filled. But a week may not be enough for a newer GM. It may be that we need to do some kind of running list of games and times that are upcoming so people can plan a little better.

  40. Vincent Eaton I mean, do whatever you need to do to be a good citizen. If you cancel your RSVP early, it’s not a big deal. Our community is robust enough to get the spot filled. A week is no big deal for my games. If I have at least a day, I can get spaces filled. But a week may not be enough for a newer GM. It may be that we need to do some kind of running list of games and times that are upcoming so people can plan a little better.

  41. Michael X. Heiligenstein is absolutely right. Muster your group on Hangouts chat at least a few days before. That is a sure fire way of not getting caught by a last-minute cancellation.

  42. Michael X. Heiligenstein is absolutely right. Muster your group on Hangouts chat at least a few days before. That is a sure fire way of not getting caught by a last-minute cancellation.

  43. Ryan McNeil re: the reminder emails – the time-and-date site and Google calendar links are in your time zone. Time zones are fucking complicated so I leave it up to others to do that work for me.

  44. Ryan McNeil re: the reminder emails – the time-and-date site and Google calendar links are in your time zone. Time zones are fucking complicated so I leave it up to others to do that work for me.

  45. Yeah, to be clear: Reminder emails are different than confirmation emails. The reminder emails are all good as far as I can tell. It’s the confirmation emails that are buggy (and which we might ditch entirely, because what’s the point?)

  46. Yeah, to be clear: Reminder emails are different than confirmation emails. The reminder emails are all good as far as I can tell. It’s the confirmation emails that are buggy (and which we might ditch entirely, because what’s the point?)

  47. It would also be nice if the standard statement about safety and the inclusivity policy link were built into the new event template, so we don’t have to add it into the event description each time.

  48. It would also be nice if the standard statement about safety and the inclusivity policy link were built into the new event template, so we don’t have to add it into the event description each time.

  49. The confirmation emails are great when someone moves up from waitlist to the main list– it tells me I should check and follow up. That’s hugely helpful. It’s also a reminder to add that to your calendar. But we may have other mechanical means to cover those issues.

    I do like the idea of session duration and a link to the Safety guidelines. There was also some talk of modifying the registration process to make it clear to users that their email would be available to GMs for contact and potentially group emails. IIRC European standards for sign ups and email uses have gotten stricter. I’ve been trying to remember to mention the group email potential in my event text.

  50. The confirmation emails are great when someone moves up from waitlist to the main list– it tells me I should check and follow up. That’s hugely helpful. It’s also a reminder to add that to your calendar. But we may have other mechanical means to cover those issues.

    I do like the idea of session duration and a link to the Safety guidelines. There was also some talk of modifying the registration process to make it clear to users that their email would be available to GMs for contact and potentially group emails. IIRC European standards for sign ups and email uses have gotten stricter. I’ve been trying to remember to mention the group email potential in my event text.

  51. Maxime Lacoste I too recently had a similar problem with getting notifications from hangouts which caused me to be very late to a game, even though I was sitting there waiting to receive the notice that the GM sent out.

  52. Maxime Lacoste I too recently had a similar problem with getting notifications from hangouts which caused me to be very late to a game, even though I was sitting there waiting to receive the notice that the GM sent out.

  53. Recommendations for feature adds to the signup site:

    Allow opening in tabs. it can be frustrating trying to find an event to sign up for when you can’t go back to your search parameters. The calendar and the excel table both reset when you go back to them.

    Allow search filters on the Excel table. The sort by is really handy for finding open games, but it would be great if users could combine filters and search for, say, games happening tomorrow after I get home from work that need players, or games Jason Cordova is hosting that need players.

  54. Recommendations for feature adds to the signup site:

    Allow opening in tabs. it can be frustrating trying to find an event to sign up for when you can’t go back to your search parameters. The calendar and the excel table both reset when you go back to them.

    Allow search filters on the Excel table. The sort by is really handy for finding open games, but it would be great if users could combine filters and search for, say, games happening tomorrow after I get home from work that need players, or games Jason Cordova is hosting that need players.

  55. A way to contact GMs for players would be super helpful. I’ve wanted to touch base with a GM a few times before a game, especially when I’ve come in off a wait list and haven’t heard anything, and had to google around trying to track down a way to contact them (pre-joining the Slack), or ping them on Slack.

  56. A way to contact GMs for players would be super helpful. I’ve wanted to touch base with a GM a few times before a game, especially when I’ve come in off a wait list and haven’t heard anything, and had to google around trying to track down a way to contact them (pre-joining the Slack), or ping them on Slack.

  57. Jesse Abelman That probably needs to be added to the event creation guidelines. Everyone knows where to find me, so it’s not something I have thought about much. For newer GMs on the calendar, that would be helpful info.

  58. Jesse Abelman That probably needs to be added to the event creation guidelines. Everyone knows where to find me, so it’s not something I have thought about much. For newer GMs on the calendar, that would be helpful info.

  59. Jason Cordova Or newer players, who aren’t yet patrons at the $6 level. My first Gauntlet game I came in off a waitlist day of game, and didn’t hear from the GM until right at game time. I had never had any contact with the GM before, or anybody at the gauntlet really, and wanted to see what this awesome sounding community that put out such great podcasts was all about. It was surprisingly nerve-wracking, if I’d been able to easily contact the GM it would have made a huge difference.

  60. Jason Cordova Or newer players, who aren’t yet patrons at the $6 level. My first Gauntlet game I came in off a waitlist day of game, and didn’t hear from the GM until right at game time. I had never had any contact with the GM before, or anybody at the gauntlet really, and wanted to see what this awesome sounding community that put out such great podcasts was all about. It was surprisingly nerve-wracking, if I’d been able to easily contact the GM it would have made a huge difference.

  61. Jesse Abelman Yeah, that’s something I think about a lot. At this point, I’d wager over 95% of game participants are either $6 or $7 Patrons, or they are otherwise involved in a lot of what we do, in which case there are a lot of easy ways to get connected. But for those people who have just stumbled on us, it’s definitely harder. I think you’re right that GM contact info would be the easiest fix there.

  62. Jesse Abelman Yeah, that’s something I think about a lot. At this point, I’d wager over 95% of game participants are either $6 or $7 Patrons, or they are otherwise involved in a lot of what we do, in which case there are a lot of easy ways to get connected. But for those people who have just stumbled on us, it’s definitely harder. I think you’re right that GM contact info would be the easiest fix there.

  63. Jason Cordova I don’t want to oversell it, the game was an awesome experience, and here I am several months later, playing as often as I can (which is sadly not often enough), and supporting the community on Patreon. You (and everybody else) do so much to make new people feel welcome, it’s been great.

  64. Jason Cordova I don’t want to oversell it, the game was an awesome experience, and here I am several months later, playing as often as I can (which is sadly not often enough), and supporting the community on Patreon. You (and everybody else) do so much to make new people feel welcome, it’s been great.

  65. Jason Cordova Michael X. Heiligenstein re: forming on Hangouts chat, I definitely like hearing from the GM a bit early, but Hangouts chat doesn’t notify me of new info and sometimes makes finding and reopening old conversations tough. I’ve been accidentally late to a game because I had my email and Slack open waiting for a Hangouts link and hadn’t seen it post in an old Hangouts conversation. Given options, I prefer contact methods that notify me immediately.

  66. Jason Cordova Michael X. Heiligenstein re: forming on Hangouts chat, I definitely like hearing from the GM a bit early, but Hangouts chat doesn’t notify me of new info and sometimes makes finding and reopening old conversations tough. I’ve been accidentally late to a game because I had my email and Slack open waiting for a Hangouts link and hadn’t seen it post in an old Hangouts conversation. Given options, I prefer contact methods that notify me immediately.

  67. Jesse Abelman Jason Cordova And to the end of last-minute contact (and I empathize with that issue 100%!), thankfully the system has been improved recently to now give 1-week and 1-day prior emails, with contact info. I think some of that last-minute nerve wracking will be much reduced. Thanks Shane Liebling!

  68. Jesse Abelman Jason Cordova And to the end of last-minute contact (and I empathize with that issue 100%!), thankfully the system has been improved recently to now give 1-week and 1-day prior emails, with contact info. I think some of that last-minute nerve wracking will be much reduced. Thanks Shane Liebling!

  69. Vincent Eaton Also, to concur with what Vincent said, so much of this: “Allow opening in tabs. it can be frustrating trying to find an event to sign up for when you can’t go back to your search parameters. The calendar and the excel table both reset when you go back to them.” (I really can’t understand why you can’t right-click on an entry and open in another tab, at a minimum; but maybe that’s just web magic I don’t get)

  70. Vincent Eaton Also, to concur with what Vincent said, so much of this: “Allow opening in tabs. it can be frustrating trying to find an event to sign up for when you can’t go back to your search parameters. The calendar and the excel table both reset when you go back to them.” (I really can’t understand why you can’t right-click on an entry and open in another tab, at a minimum; but maybe that’s just web magic I don’t get)

  71. As someone who’s unRSVP’d from a fair number of events, I humbly suggest this practice: if you unRSVP from an event, take some ownership of the responsibility of finding a replacement player (if no one’s on the waitlist).

    You could post on Slack that you’ve just opened up a slot in the event. Where would one post this – #announcements? #community_discussion?

  72. As someone who’s unRSVP’d from a fair number of events, I humbly suggest this practice: if you unRSVP from an event, take some ownership of the responsibility of finding a replacement player (if no one’s on the waitlist).

    You could post on Slack that you’ve just opened up a slot in the event. Where would one post this – #announcements? #community_discussion?

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