In the newest episode of The Gauntlet Podcast, Lowell Francis and I are joined by Kyle Thompson to discuss the practical considerations of open table campaign play, like we practice in Gauntlet Hangouts; Worlds of Adventure, an unofficial 2e of Dungeon World currently in development; and running a Carcosa hexcrawl.
It’s a pretty fantastic conversation, particularly the open table play discussion, which is something I know a lot of people find puzzling about our community. I have been running campaigns open table for a long time, but Lowell is fairly new to it, so it was interesting to hear his perspectives on the matter.
Thanks to Paul Edson for the sharp edit on this episode.
Enjoy!
Part way through this episode, which is great, but had to ask: how do races in D&D reinforce racism. (Kyle mentions this in passing when talking about World of Adventure, and then moves on like it’s a totally normal thing to think. WAT.) The concept of race in D&D (your species, really) doesn’t really have much to do with race as we understand it in the real world. (Race is a social construct and all that jazz.) Right?
Part way through this episode, which is great, but had to ask: how do races in D&D reinforce racism. (Kyle mentions this in passing when talking about World of Adventure, and then moves on like it’s a totally normal thing to think. WAT.) The concept of race in D&D (your species, really) doesn’t really have much to do with race as we understand it in the real world. (Race is a social construct and all that jazz.) Right?
Ramanan S yeah, I almost asked Kyle to unpack that, but we were already going long. I have heard this before, but I can’t quite remember the argument.
Ramanan S yeah, I almost asked Kyle to unpack that, but we were already going long. I have heard this before, but I can’t quite remember the argument.
Jason Cordova Yeah, it’s a tangent to the whole conversation. But I think people repeat this thought without thinking about it enough. And I think these memes make light of actual racism.
Jason Cordova Yeah, it’s a tangent to the whole conversation. But I think people repeat this thought without thinking about it enough. And I think these memes make light of actual racism.
BUT I LOVE YOU GUYS AND I LOVE YOUR SHOW.
BUT I LOVE YOU GUYS AND I LOVE YOUR SHOW.
I often say species now instead of race, but it’s definitely not a hill I’m going to die on. Mostly because it doesn’t seem that important to me.
I often say species now instead of race, but it’s definitely not a hill I’m going to die on. Mostly because it doesn’t seem that important to me.
I think there is a strong argument that D&D’s racial system is racist or at least perpetuates racist beliefs. This is the best article I’ve seen making this argument:https://www.publicmedievalist.com/race-fantasy-genre/
To briefly summarize, I think the author makes two main points: First, D&D races have inherent traits and tendencies. This closely parallels the real-world racist belief that members of certain races are better or worse at particular kinds of activities, share similar personality characteristics, etc. I would add that the D&D view of humans closely resembles the view of white people under real-world white supremacy: Humans in D&D are the only race that doesn’t have any class restrictions, stat modifiers, race-based personality traits – they are free to be whoever and whatever they want. Similarly, the white race in U.S. society is the only race whose members are allowed to be full-fledged individuals without the constraint of preconceived notions about how they should think or behave.
Second, D&D races that are portrayed as inherently evil are almost always described as dark skinned, e.g., drow and orcs. This perpetuates the belief that dark skin equals bad, which is obviously racist.
publicmedievalist.com – Race: the Original Sin of the Fantasy Genre | The Public Medievalist
I think there is a strong argument that D&D’s racial system is racist or at least perpetuates racist beliefs. This is the best article I’ve seen making this argument:https://www.publicmedievalist.com/race-fantasy-genre/
To briefly summarize, I think the author makes two main points: First, D&D races have inherent traits and tendencies. This closely parallels the real-world racist belief that members of certain races are better or worse at particular kinds of activities, share similar personality characteristics, etc. I would add that the D&D view of humans closely resembles the view of white people under real-world white supremacy: Humans in D&D are the only race that doesn’t have any class restrictions, stat modifiers, race-based personality traits – they are free to be whoever and whatever they want. Similarly, the white race in U.S. society is the only race whose members are allowed to be full-fledged individuals without the constraint of preconceived notions about how they should think or behave.
Second, D&D races that are portrayed as inherently evil are almost always described as dark skinned, e.g., drow and orcs. This perpetuates the belief that dark skin equals bad, which is obviously racist.
publicmedievalist.com – Race: the Original Sin of the Fantasy Genre | The Public Medievalist
Loved the conversation by Lowell Francis and Jason Cordova on how you changed the games to accommodate open tables/play. Great ideas.
Loved the conversation by Lowell Francis and Jason Cordova on how you changed the games to accommodate open tables/play. Great ideas.
Having just completed a four-session game of Qelong using the hex crawl rules and a pbta-ish system, I was interested to hear about Jason’s experiences running Carcosa.
I can relate to the issue of the group getting to consensus on where to go. Lucky for Jason this wasn’t an issue for his group. It’s fine if everyone enjoys extensive debates between characters about this sort of stuff, but if the preference is for a game that is a bit more tightly paced, it becomes a problem.
In my game I started out being pretty hands-off about this but towards the end of the series I discussed it with the players and discovered some weren’t that into it but felt obliged to roleplay each debate regardless. So I felt more confident cutting short such scenes. Despite this, we did still spend a significant amount of playtime figuring out where characters would head next. It’s kind of inevitable in a game focused on exploration.
I guess to some players this is a large part of the fun of a hex-crawl and it kind of connects to the problem-solving focus of OSR style games. But for players who have a more story-oriented approach, it can be off-putting.
Having just completed a four-session game of Qelong using the hex crawl rules and a pbta-ish system, I was interested to hear about Jason’s experiences running Carcosa.
I can relate to the issue of the group getting to consensus on where to go. Lucky for Jason this wasn’t an issue for his group. It’s fine if everyone enjoys extensive debates between characters about this sort of stuff, but if the preference is for a game that is a bit more tightly paced, it becomes a problem.
In my game I started out being pretty hands-off about this but towards the end of the series I discussed it with the players and discovered some weren’t that into it but felt obliged to roleplay each debate regardless. So I felt more confident cutting short such scenes. Despite this, we did still spend a significant amount of playtime figuring out where characters would head next. It’s kind of inevitable in a game focused on exploration.
I guess to some players this is a large part of the fun of a hex-crawl and it kind of connects to the problem-solving focus of OSR style games. But for players who have a more story-oriented approach, it can be off-putting.
Ludere Melior Thanks for the link! Still feels like a leap, to me, but it’s nice to see it all written down.
Ludere Melior Thanks for the link! Still feels like a leap, to me, but it’s nice to see it all written down.
To get around the problem of players picking different Carcosa races that are all hanging out for reasons the book doesn’t help spell out I made a table of reasons with people from G+. Jason Cordova save.vs.totalpartykill.ca – Save vs. Total Party Kill – Why Are We Together
To get around the problem of players picking different Carcosa races that are all hanging out for reasons the book doesn’t help spell out I made a table of reasons with people from G+. Jason Cordova save.vs.totalpartykill.ca – Save vs. Total Party Kill – Why Are We Together
When I ran my Carcosa game I had some factions and rumours about the areas around them, so that helped get around the meandering around doing nothing that can happen with Hex Crawls. I think you need to have reasons to move around. Sometimes the random meandering would end up crazy and fun, though. Like you note.
When I ran my Carcosa game I had some factions and rumours about the areas around them, so that helped get around the meandering around doing nothing that can happen with Hex Crawls. I think you need to have reasons to move around. Sometimes the random meandering would end up crazy and fun, though. Like you note.
Are your notes for running it with WoD online? (Some of the stuff you’ve made sounds broadly useful.)
Are your notes for running it with WoD online? (Some of the stuff you’ve made sounds broadly useful.)
“A world that doesn’t care about you” sounds way too much like the real world to be fun.
“A world that doesn’t care about you” sounds way too much like the real world to be fun.
Loved all the various insights by both Jason Cordova and Lowell Francis on various play style differences (whether campaign in open tables or OSR hexcrawl affects on story gaming), but also a new voice with Kyle Thompson on the show! Oh man, I can’t remember if Kyle’s series of how to BitD videos were mentioned, but there’s a bit of gold there too (could’ve been mentioned elsewhere in the various podcasts, or not?) Plug! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHFeW6sDK7Y&list=PLhnce2Cs9CTUeWd6F4wlHlWVqwcq6zrQV
Loved all the various insights by both Jason Cordova and Lowell Francis on various play style differences (whether campaign in open tables or OSR hexcrawl affects on story gaming), but also a new voice with Kyle Thompson on the show! Oh man, I can’t remember if Kyle’s series of how to BitD videos were mentioned, but there’s a bit of gold there too (could’ve been mentioned elsewhere in the various podcasts, or not?) Plug! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHFeW6sDK7Y&list=PLhnce2Cs9CTUeWd6F4wlHlWVqwcq6zrQV
Loved this whole episode! Jason and Lowell, hearing your perspectives on open table, long scope gaming was fascinating. It was also nice to hear about Worlds of Adventure, since I really want DW to be better. A big thanks to Kyle for mentioning my birthday game as well!!!
Loved this whole episode! Jason and Lowell, hearing your perspectives on open table, long scope gaming was fascinating. It was also nice to hear about Worlds of Adventure, since I really want DW to be better. A big thanks to Kyle for mentioning my birthday game as well!!!
Jason Cordova The link you provide on the podcast’s webpage (https://drive.google.com/open?id=1MPVGWxsoJgBWJffGCCOf3IrZycY9HctvchABByPHqyQ) points to a document that has a title and some content that suggests there might by more… Did you mean to link only that document, or have you also prepared WoDu-specific psionics and/or lists of equipment beyond what is presented here? Either way, thanks for doing this! I’ll be adding this to a treasure trove of Carcosa materials I’ve been amassing for “one day soon” (tip of the hat to Ramanan S for contributing his own gems to that horde) Can’t wait for news from Yoon-Suin in June!
docs.google.com – World of Dungeons: Carcosa (Character Creation)
Jason Cordova The link you provide on the podcast’s webpage (https://drive.google.com/open?id=1MPVGWxsoJgBWJffGCCOf3IrZycY9HctvchABByPHqyQ) points to a document that has a title and some content that suggests there might by more… Did you mean to link only that document, or have you also prepared WoDu-specific psionics and/or lists of equipment beyond what is presented here? Either way, thanks for doing this! I’ll be adding this to a treasure trove of Carcosa materials I’ve been amassing for “one day soon” (tip of the hat to Ramanan S for contributing his own gems to that horde) Can’t wait for news from Yoon-Suin in June!
docs.google.com – World of Dungeons: Carcosa (Character Creation)
Reading that doc: it’s interesting that you played the game where everyone had to be a man! The book does talk about women here or there, but the language used to describe the races is awkward. Single sex races seems weirder, though.
Reading that doc: it’s interesting that you played the game where everyone had to be a man! The book does talk about women here or there, but the language used to describe the races is awkward. Single sex races seems weirder, though.
Ramanan S They didn’t have to be men; in the doc I used “Men” in the same way the book does, which was to mean “humans”
Ramanan S They didn’t have to be men; in the doc I used “Men” in the same way the book does, which was to mean “humans”
Jason Cordova Ah. I guess that makes more sense rereading what you wrote.
Jason Cordova Ah. I guess that makes more sense rereading what you wrote.
Brian Burnley That doc is used in conjunction with both the WoDu rules and the Carcosa text. Where the players could get, say, a piece of space alien technology, I just rolled on the tables in the Carcosa book. As for psionics, a little bit of that is just in my head: basically, in WoDu, you don’t need much more than a description of a power (if my guy can do “telekinesis,” I just describe that in my narration, sticking to the limitations in the Carcosa book vis a vis weight and duration).
Brian Burnley That doc is used in conjunction with both the WoDu rules and the Carcosa text. Where the players could get, say, a piece of space alien technology, I just rolled on the tables in the Carcosa book. As for psionics, a little bit of that is just in my head: basically, in WoDu, you don’t need much more than a description of a power (if my guy can do “telekinesis,” I just describe that in my narration, sticking to the limitations in the Carcosa book vis a vis weight and duration).
I have also made a tiny adjustment so that Jale Men have a +1% chance to have psionics, which reflects a detail in the Carcosa book.
I have also made a tiny adjustment so that Jale Men have a +1% chance to have psionics, which reflects a detail in the Carcosa book.
Also added a sobriquet naming scheme, which is something we did in our game.
Also added a sobriquet naming scheme, which is something we did in our game.
I just listened to the first onyx path podcast and at the end they tease their upcoming crossover “Contagion Chronicle”. It has rules for stats for teams of PCs much like mentioned in the gauntlet podcast. Hopefully that will help make chronicles of darkness more gameable in open table format!
I just listened to the first onyx path podcast and at the end they tease their upcoming crossover “Contagion Chronicle”. It has rules for stats for teams of PCs much like mentioned in the gauntlet podcast. Hopefully that will help make chronicles of darkness more gameable in open table format!