On the episode of Fear of a Black Dragon that comes out in a couple of weeks, Tom McGrenery and I are covering The Warlock of Firetop Mountain, a module for Advanced Fighting Fantasy, based on the old Steve Jackson gamebooks. A big part of the discussion is about enjoying something for nostalgic reasons (in this case, Tom’s nostalgia, as this series was a big deal for British nerds of a certain age) and how we can push past that nostalgia to find something about it that appeals to our modern sensibilities.
My question for you all: what is something RPG-related you enjoy almost entirely for reasons of nostalgia? In what ways does your nostalgia for that product inform the gamer you are today?
Steve Jackson *and* Ian Livingstone (who also gave the world Lara Croft)
Steve Jackson *and* Ian Livingstone (who also gave the world Lara Croft)
(Very much a British nerd of a certain age here)
(Very much a British nerd of a certain age here)
Strange dice or dice mechanics. 2d6 works perfectly well but there’s something about a d8 or a dice pool that brings the sense of “game” to the table.
Strange dice or dice mechanics. 2d6 works perfectly well but there’s something about a d8 or a dice pool that brings the sense of “game” to the table.
But to answer the actual question, Rifts. It is garbage and I love it.
But to answer the actual question, Rifts. It is garbage and I love it.
I am a babby, so I don’t know…
I am a babby, so I don’t know…
Oli Jeffery I’ve totally got the Steve Jackson and Ian Livingstone nostalgia too – their solo gamebooks were very popular in Australia! I still associate that particular colour of flouro green with those books… When I was a kid me and my Mum would play with two versions of the same book (The City of Thieves one) and had made our own two player version, with some adlib and extra story line built in. Was around the same time I got into Dungeons and Dragons (a friend showed me the little solo adventure/tutorial in the Red Box).
Oli Jeffery I’ve totally got the Steve Jackson and Ian Livingstone nostalgia too – their solo gamebooks were very popular in Australia! I still associate that particular colour of flouro green with those books… When I was a kid me and my Mum would play with two versions of the same book (The City of Thieves one) and had made our own two player version, with some adlib and extra story line built in. Was around the same time I got into Dungeons and Dragons (a friend showed me the little solo adventure/tutorial in the Red Box).
Blue dungeon maps.
Blue dungeon maps.
Ooh! I really loved TMNT and Other Strangeness. I made several teams for that game just for fun. I think that’s when I learned that building stuff for games can be a game itself.
Ooh! I really loved TMNT and Other Strangeness. I made several teams for that game just for fun. I think that’s when I learned that building stuff for games can be a game itself.
The Red Box for ‘Basic’ D&D. The very 80s fantasy art, the solo adventure that probably taught more people how to actually play an RPG than any other single product. One of my older brothers bought it with the money he made delivering newspapers and made us, his two younger brothers play it with him. Later got into AD&D because it was ‘advanced’ but after discovering CoC and the Rules Cyclopedia years later I realized I preferred the simplicity and speed that Basic brought to the table to the crunch of 1e and 2e AD&D. Still prefer rules light games to this day. Just this year found a copy of the Red Box in a thrift stores for $4!
The Red Box for ‘Basic’ D&D. The very 80s fantasy art, the solo adventure that probably taught more people how to actually play an RPG than any other single product. One of my older brothers bought it with the money he made delivering newspapers and made us, his two younger brothers play it with him. Later got into AD&D because it was ‘advanced’ but after discovering CoC and the Rules Cyclopedia years later I realized I preferred the simplicity and speed that Basic brought to the table to the crunch of 1e and 2e AD&D. Still prefer rules light games to this day. Just this year found a copy of the Red Box in a thrift stores for $4!
I have the anniversary hardback of warlock… I guess I’m of a certain age 😕… In answer to your question, Marvel Superheroes… It teaches us that accessibility, simplicity and touchstones are important to get new young players on board and running games.
I have the anniversary hardback of warlock… I guess I’m of a certain age 😕… In answer to your question, Marvel Superheroes… It teaches us that accessibility, simplicity and touchstones are important to get new young players on board and running games.
Not a Brit, but Steve Jackson & Ian Livingstone’s books were pretty big in Portugal when I was a kid. All of them got translated and sold in droves. The first edition of The Warlock of Firetop Mountain even came with a Spectrum computer game (I presume it was the same everywhere else?). Loved those books. Still have a few of my favourites around.
Not a Brit, but Steve Jackson & Ian Livingstone’s books were pretty big in Portugal when I was a kid. All of them got translated and sold in droves. The first edition of The Warlock of Firetop Mountain even came with a Spectrum computer game (I presume it was the same everywhere else?). Loved those books. Still have a few of my favourites around.
the rpg life is a recent development for me, but i think a lot of my gaming style comes from a youth watching and obsessing over classic doctor who. a lot of talking, running, making dumb decisions and getting captured. i dig combat in my games, but my nostalgia for stories like frontios, snake dance, or the key to time series pushes me toward a more action packed but vaguely social style of play. and the amount of antagonism between pcs, which i also enjoy, may also come from this. the doc fought a lot with romana, tegan, turlough, adric, and others.
the rpg life is a recent development for me, but i think a lot of my gaming style comes from a youth watching and obsessing over classic doctor who. a lot of talking, running, making dumb decisions and getting captured. i dig combat in my games, but my nostalgia for stories like frontios, snake dance, or the key to time series pushes me toward a more action packed but vaguely social style of play. and the amount of antagonism between pcs, which i also enjoy, may also come from this. the doc fought a lot with romana, tegan, turlough, adric, and others.
Oh and for fantasy wise nostalgia AD&D book art and the cover of Warhammer fantasy RPG.
Oh and for fantasy wise nostalgia AD&D book art and the cover of Warhammer fantasy RPG.
Rolemaster and it’s crazy times Critical charts. It was a system that was way too much looking stuff up…but the thrill of wacky overkill outcome for an exceptional die roll still feels right. Sometimes I think new game tech makes success feel vanilla and puts all the flavor in failure…and I do keenly miss the possibility of wild success creating improbable and memorable outcomes too.
Rolemaster and it’s crazy times Critical charts. It was a system that was way too much looking stuff up…but the thrill of wacky overkill outcome for an exceptional die roll still feels right. Sometimes I think new game tech makes success feel vanilla and puts all the flavor in failure…and I do keenly miss the possibility of wild success creating improbable and memorable outcomes too.
My answer to that question is exactly The Warlock of Firetop Mointain. I even still have the board game. Thanks so much for picking it!
My answer to that question is exactly The Warlock of Firetop Mointain. I even still have the board game. Thanks so much for picking it!
I’m contributing from the perspective a long-time player of Vampire: the Masquerade. I got into that game in it’s second edition when it had really polished it’s gothic-punk (read: romantic) look/production.
There was something about the way that the material blended with what was going on in art, music, horror and subculture at the time that really spoke to me. (I was a teenager at the time as well so there was a lot of ennui going on.) Anyway, that edition is still to me “the best” edition and I try to let it inform the way I play Vampire now.
Art, music, horror and subculture have changed a lot since the mid-90’s but I find that I still have to tap into those things, and their sensibilities, as they are now to even come close to achieving the right feeling. Otherwise, I find that I’m running a period piece full of “things were better when” throwback references.
I guess, especially with Vampire, the game to me will always have a young feeling to it, no matter how old the character you’re playing is supposed to be. Perhaps that’s the dramatic tension? Trying to feel young, when you keep getting older and older.
Anyway, that’s my thought. Keep up the great work on the podcasts, I love them all!
I’m contributing from the perspective a long-time player of Vampire: the Masquerade. I got into that game in it’s second edition when it had really polished it’s gothic-punk (read: romantic) look/production.
There was something about the way that the material blended with what was going on in art, music, horror and subculture at the time that really spoke to me. (I was a teenager at the time as well so there was a lot of ennui going on.) Anyway, that edition is still to me “the best” edition and I try to let it inform the way I play Vampire now.
Art, music, horror and subculture have changed a lot since the mid-90’s but I find that I still have to tap into those things, and their sensibilities, as they are now to even come close to achieving the right feeling. Otherwise, I find that I’m running a period piece full of “things were better when” throwback references.
I guess, especially with Vampire, the game to me will always have a young feeling to it, no matter how old the character you’re playing is supposed to be. Perhaps that’s the dramatic tension? Trying to feel young, when you keep getting older and older.
Anyway, that’s my thought. Keep up the great work on the podcasts, I love them all!
Dragonlance.
I tried to re-read Dragons of Autumn Twilight as an adult, but the writing was so…ugh. But at a time when I was playing every solo module I could get my hands on (including the Red Box, 39k times), the chance to step into fiction that wasn’t just like what I was playing, but was a direct result of other people playing this game I was so in love with…? It was like the original Actual Play.
Dragonlance.
I tried to re-read Dragons of Autumn Twilight as an adult, but the writing was so…ugh. But at a time when I was playing every solo module I could get my hands on (including the Red Box, 39k times), the chance to step into fiction that wasn’t just like what I was playing, but was a direct result of other people playing this game I was so in love with…? It was like the original Actual Play.
Now that I’ve listened to the recent Gauntlet podcast, I’m a little embarrassed to mention TMNT as a nostalgic experience. I didn’t remember that part of it.
All the eighties nostalgia skips over the sinister side of that era. People seem to remember the expressive fashion and howling synths but forget all the twisted thinking that led to a rash of violent crimes committed by emboldened “straight-laced” boys. They even adopted “fun” names for the vicious, sometimes murderous, acts against people they perceived as homosexual or homeless. How many retro TV shows mention “gay-bashing” or “troll-hunting”?
It sounds like TMNT managed to roll those disgusting eighties sensibilities into a neat little ball.
Now that I’ve listened to the recent Gauntlet podcast, I’m a little embarrassed to mention TMNT as a nostalgic experience. I didn’t remember that part of it.
All the eighties nostalgia skips over the sinister side of that era. People seem to remember the expressive fashion and howling synths but forget all the twisted thinking that led to a rash of violent crimes committed by emboldened “straight-laced” boys. They even adopted “fun” names for the vicious, sometimes murderous, acts against people they perceived as homosexual or homeless. How many retro TV shows mention “gay-bashing” or “troll-hunting”?
It sounds like TMNT managed to roll those disgusting eighties sensibilities into a neat little ball.
Logan Howard That’s very thoughtful, but personally I think it’s ok to enjoy problematic stuff, so long as you acknowledge it’s problematic. I still have a soft spot for TMNT, Rifts, and other Palladium stuff, even though it is garbage in many ways.
Logan Howard That’s very thoughtful, but personally I think it’s ok to enjoy problematic stuff, so long as you acknowledge it’s problematic. I still have a soft spot for TMNT, Rifts, and other Palladium stuff, even though it is garbage in many ways.