Our DW GM thinks the fireball spell is overpowered and is nerfing magic with some custom rules (both the wizard and cleric have the spell). Have others had a similar experience? Is there some other way to deal with this issue already in the rules?
Our DW GM thinks the fireball spell is overpowered and is nerfing magic with some custom rules (both the wizard and…
Our DW GM thinks the fireball spell is overpowered and is nerfing magic with some custom rules (both the wizard and…
Talk to the GM. They do not have uneven unilateral power in DW.
Talk to the GM. They do not have uneven unilateral power in DW.
I think that the best way to “deal” with the fireball spell is to make the consequences drastic if they fail. I’m sure your party has lots of valuable flammable things.
I think that the best way to “deal” with the fireball spell is to make the consequences drastic if they fail. I’m sure your party has lots of valuable flammable things.
Yeah, just remember that it attacks ALL entities in the area. Good guys, bad guys, the environment, and caster. I don’t let the caster deal heaps of damage freely unless the narrative can support it. If you are in a cave or a building, I’d implement narrative consequences even on a 7-9 as a soft move. Imagine a real explosion went off in a tavern. Collateral damage.
Yeah, just remember that it attacks ALL entities in the area. Good guys, bad guys, the environment, and caster. I don’t let the caster deal heaps of damage freely unless the narrative can support it. If you are in a cave or a building, I’d implement narrative consequences even on a 7-9 as a soft move. Imagine a real explosion went off in a tavern. Collateral damage.
ive never felt it was overpowered. its posible problems are obvious and it is one of the few ways a wizard can be effective in combat
ive never felt it was overpowered. its posible problems are obvious and it is one of the few ways a wizard can be effective in combat
And if the wizard rolls a miss, then it could go oh so horribly wrong — picture it being twice as powerful as planned or worse: so hot it melts / burns everything — stone, metal, air, with a blast that throws things tens of yards…
And if the wizard rolls a miss, then it could go oh so horribly wrong — picture it being twice as powerful as planned or worse: so hot it melts / burns everything — stone, metal, air, with a blast that throws things tens of yards…
I’d be more annoyed if they nerfed it mid-game or something. If they are upfront about how they want the spell to behave it doesn’t seem like a big deal.
I’d be more annoyed if they nerfed it mid-game or something. If they are upfront about how they want the spell to behave it doesn’t seem like a big deal.
Yeah, I have never run into this issue. It does 2d6 damage, which is strong, but not overpowered. Also, on a miss, that sucker better be blowing up in the caster’s face or all over the party (or worse), like others have suggested.
Yeah, I have never run into this issue. It does 2d6 damage, which is strong, but not overpowered. Also, on a miss, that sucker better be blowing up in the caster’s face or all over the party (or worse), like others have suggested.
In a fairly recent game, Fraser Simons’s wizard rolled a miss on a fireball and I narrated it basically going wide and incinerating two nearby children the party was trying to save. That’s a hard fucking move, and a great lesson on how mercurial and dangerous magic is. And it wasn’t just some cheap thing, either. That moment ended up being something that influenced the character and his motivations for the rest of the series.
In a fairly recent game, Fraser Simons’s wizard rolled a miss on a fireball and I narrated it basically going wide and incinerating two nearby children the party was trying to save. That’s a hard fucking move, and a great lesson on how mercurial and dangerous magic is. And it wasn’t just some cheap thing, either. That moment ended up being something that influenced the character and his motivations for the rest of the series.
Yeah, in a lot of ways it was the most pivotal moment for the character, who went from a naive academically educated wizard to a haunted much less care-free character. And flags going forward were about if magic was even worth it to him, or not.
Those tags are pretty intense. It’s basically the only spell with “decent” damage for the Wizard and they make it hard to position the spell at all, and then the consequences with the tags are there too. I don’t think it’s over powered at all~
Yeah, in a lot of ways it was the most pivotal moment for the character, who went from a naive academically educated wizard to a haunted much less care-free character. And flags going forward were about if magic was even worth it to him, or not.
Those tags are pretty intense. It’s basically the only spell with “decent” damage for the Wizard and they make it hard to position the spell at all, and then the consequences with the tags are there too. I don’t think it’s over powered at all~
So, as the GM of the game, I had been experiencing many combats ending with fireball and it had been getting a little repetitive. I didnt want this to become such a standard and easy thing. So I expressed my concern to the group and said that there would be some limitations on combat casting in future. Please bear in mind that we have the Wizard, the cleric (with fireball) and the sorcerer (with an iceball), it comes up a lot.
Having read your comments I can appreciate that I haven’t been describing risks/consequences enough. Also, I hadn’t been using Defy Danger for their combat casting. I had been thinking about making casting time longer as my “nerf” which coming to think about it in detail would have induced Defy Danger rolls more often from their casting and added an element of greater tension to their casting. It might also require someone to Defend them while they cast if they were not in a protected position/at range.
Unfortunately I had had to describe a 12+ (12 damage) fireball going off in the middle of a combat… and I had described negative consequences, when perhaps I should have asked how it was the Wizard overcame the difficultes of not blasting his mates (and 2 children in cages) nearby.
How would you guys have resolved the above situation?
What further advice could you give going forwards?
So, as the GM of the game, I had been experiencing many combats ending with fireball and it had been getting a little repetitive. I didnt want this to become such a standard and easy thing. So I expressed my concern to the group and said that there would be some limitations on combat casting in future. Please bear in mind that we have the Wizard, the cleric (with fireball) and the sorcerer (with an iceball), it comes up a lot.
Having read your comments I can appreciate that I haven’t been describing risks/consequences enough. Also, I hadn’t been using Defy Danger for their combat casting. I had been thinking about making casting time longer as my “nerf” which coming to think about it in detail would have induced Defy Danger rolls more often from their casting and added an element of greater tension to their casting. It might also require someone to Defend them while they cast if they were not in a protected position/at range.
Unfortunately I had had to describe a 12+ (12 damage) fireball going off in the middle of a combat… and I had described negative consequences, when perhaps I should have asked how it was the Wizard overcame the difficultes of not blasting his mates (and 2 children in cages) nearby.
How would you guys have resolved the above situation?
What further advice could you give going forwards?
It was a 12+ roll and then a 12 damage roll? That’s fricking awesome! Embrace that awesomeness of the PC!
Make others beyond the area have their brows singed off and have to look away from the brightness of the explosion. Have an NPC be in utter awe of the wizard, fear even… let that rumor of the great might of this mage spread as their adventures continue.
For the future keep in mind that you want to describe action scenes with some sense of where everybody is. To use area spells you kind of need to keep your distance unless you are fine with hurting yourself. How do they manage that with 3 casters? Is the cleric in the front line? But then they always get hit with the spells, too.
Draw very crude (so you don’t get bogged down in details) maps for combat.
Instead of nerfing spellcasting, it seems your players are flagging with their choices that they want the game to be about magic and casters in general. Go with that. How does the world react to a group of spellslingers? The common folk? The authorities? The actual antagonists of the campaign?
It was a 12+ roll and then a 12 damage roll? That’s fricking awesome! Embrace that awesomeness of the PC!
Make others beyond the area have their brows singed off and have to look away from the brightness of the explosion. Have an NPC be in utter awe of the wizard, fear even… let that rumor of the great might of this mage spread as their adventures continue.
For the future keep in mind that you want to describe action scenes with some sense of where everybody is. To use area spells you kind of need to keep your distance unless you are fine with hurting yourself. How do they manage that with 3 casters? Is the cleric in the front line? But then they always get hit with the spells, too.
Draw very crude (so you don’t get bogged down in details) maps for combat.
Instead of nerfing spellcasting, it seems your players are flagging with their choices that they want the game to be about magic and casters in general. Go with that. How does the world react to a group of spellslingers? The common folk? The authorities? The actual antagonists of the campaign?
I agree with Mathias Belger.
Start having consequences for casting fireball.
The room catches on fire, now the group has to deal with smoke everywhere, blinding them. Oh and that manor house they were in trying to get the baddies out…? It just burnt down- oh and it belonged to a wealthy noble. They aren’t happy.
The antagonists start hearing from tales, that the group favors fire magic- so they start summoning enraged fire elements, salamanders, hiring crazed blacksmiths to create metallic automatons that are unphased by fire damage… brewing fire/magic resistance potions, etc.
I agree with Mathias Belger.
Start having consequences for casting fireball.
The room catches on fire, now the group has to deal with smoke everywhere, blinding them. Oh and that manor house they were in trying to get the baddies out…? It just burnt down- oh and it belonged to a wealthy noble. They aren’t happy.
The antagonists start hearing from tales, that the group favors fire magic- so they start summoning enraged fire elements, salamanders, hiring crazed blacksmiths to create metallic automatons that are unphased by fire damage… brewing fire/magic resistance potions, etc.
GMs don’t have uneven unilateral power in any game; talking to the GM about rules changes is always an option.
If it is an ongoing game, is there ‘abuse’ of the fireball spell going on? Do you have a wizard and cleric who are being given free shots of fireball to start every encounter? Does the GM consistently start encounters at long range with groups of clustered foes with nothing around them that would make collateral damage a problem? Are the casters always rolling 10+ and never having to deal with the problems already posed by casting spells?
You draw unwelcome attention or put yourself in a spot. The GM will tell you how.
Great, the fireball destroyed all the kobolds you saw running at you in a nice group at long range, that doesn’t mean you don’t suffer from the unwelcome attention or tight spot.
The spell disturbs the fabric of reality as it is cast—take -1 ongoing to cast a spell until the next time you Prepare Spells.
Unless the players are using magic dice, this option will eventually bite them. Of course, nothing cures magic dice.
After it is cast, the spell is forgotten. You cannot cast the spell again until you prepare spells.
Problem solved.
The GM should be wanting to see your wizard and priest blow up hordes of baddies with their spells though, the wizard and the priest are awesome. He’s supposed to be a fan of them. He just needs to make sure that the other players get to have fun too.
GMs don’t have uneven unilateral power in any game; talking to the GM about rules changes is always an option.
If it is an ongoing game, is there ‘abuse’ of the fireball spell going on? Do you have a wizard and cleric who are being given free shots of fireball to start every encounter? Does the GM consistently start encounters at long range with groups of clustered foes with nothing around them that would make collateral damage a problem? Are the casters always rolling 10+ and never having to deal with the problems already posed by casting spells?
You draw unwelcome attention or put yourself in a spot. The GM will tell you how.
Great, the fireball destroyed all the kobolds you saw running at you in a nice group at long range, that doesn’t mean you don’t suffer from the unwelcome attention or tight spot.
The spell disturbs the fabric of reality as it is cast—take -1 ongoing to cast a spell until the next time you Prepare Spells.
Unless the players are using magic dice, this option will eventually bite them. Of course, nothing cures magic dice.
After it is cast, the spell is forgotten. You cannot cast the spell again until you prepare spells.
Problem solved.
The GM should be wanting to see your wizard and priest blow up hordes of baddies with their spells though, the wizard and the priest are awesome. He’s supposed to be a fan of them. He just needs to make sure that the other players get to have fun too.
Nuke it from orbit, its the only way to be sure
Nuke it from orbit, its the only way to be sure
I would think even a successful roll to cast fireball can be dangerous. even a 12+ doesn’t make it somehow not hit players in the area. if I fireball my feet in a crowd of bad guys then i am taking damage no mater what I roll (unless the spell just completely fizzles) . there are some situations that are dangerous / unhealthy no mater how skillfully you preform them.
I would think even a successful roll to cast fireball can be dangerous. even a 12+ doesn’t make it somehow not hit players in the area. if I fireball my feet in a crowd of bad guys then i am taking damage no mater what I roll (unless the spell just completely fizzles) . there are some situations that are dangerous / unhealthy no mater how skillfully you preform them.
Martyn Richards remember that it’s ok to be a fan of players. So, if a max roll and max damage happens, be excited. Let that fireball be exactly what the situation needed.
For future fights, mix up the combat make up so that dealing 2d6 is not as combat shaking. Have less baddies, and more single monsters. look into damage immunity or magic reductions. Look into monsters who have prepared a shell type of protection with a beacon that must be destroyed before it can be damaged. These aren’t gotchas, you are just looking into dynamic ways to get more out of your party.
Martyn Richards remember that it’s ok to be a fan of players. So, if a max roll and max damage happens, be excited. Let that fireball be exactly what the situation needed.
For future fights, mix up the combat make up so that dealing 2d6 is not as combat shaking. Have less baddies, and more single monsters. look into damage immunity or magic reductions. Look into monsters who have prepared a shell type of protection with a beacon that must be destroyed before it can be damaged. These aren’t gotchas, you are just looking into dynamic ways to get more out of your party.
Also, as the GM is a player to, if he is not having fun / getting frustrated then they have the ability to say, “hey, it looks like this story is coming to a final conclusion soon. Start thinking about how you want it to end and what you want to do next.”
Also, as the GM is a player to, if he is not having fun / getting frustrated then they have the ability to say, “hey, it looks like this story is coming to a final conclusion soon. Start thinking about how you want it to end and what you want to do next.”
I also generally discourage players from “stepping on each-others toes” so i would strongly advise the cleric to let the wizard be the fireball guy if that seemed to be his go-to move. and i would probably not offer the sorcerer once the wizard was taken or vise-versa
I also generally discourage players from “stepping on each-others toes” so i would strongly advise the cleric to let the wizard be the fireball guy if that seemed to be his go-to move. and i would probably not offer the sorcerer once the wizard was taken or vise-versa
Daniel Fowler re: 12+ and damage: of course! But this is predetermined by the fictional positioning (literally) before the roll and is a consequence of the +area tag.
And yes, the DM is a player, too. They should have fun being a fan of the characters. If that’s not the case, talk about it!
Daniel Fowler re: 12+ and damage: of course! But this is predetermined by the fictional positioning (literally) before the roll and is a consequence of the +area tag.
And yes, the DM is a player, too. They should have fun being a fan of the characters. If that’s not the case, talk about it!
What way are they nerfing it? I can see adding dangerous (like Daniel Fowler said) and forceful tags if it doesn’t already have those. It’s a big, big explosion, and it should never be used in tight quarters.
Fictional positioning matters. Fireball probably won’t hurt a fire elemental or salamander. It might pass straight through skeletons.
Possible bad effects include
– Blowing gear off your person
– Burning the air out of the corridor
– Setting everything in the affected radius on fire
– Dropping the ceiling on the party/allies/baddies
– Blinding the party (in dark places)
– Deafening the party (if close enough)
Possible misses include
– It exploding at the tip of the caster’s wand
– It destroying the wand by overloading it
– Addiction?
– Causing a dangerous monster nearby to wake up
What way are they nerfing it? I can see adding dangerous (like Daniel Fowler said) and forceful tags if it doesn’t already have those. It’s a big, big explosion, and it should never be used in tight quarters.
Fictional positioning matters. Fireball probably won’t hurt a fire elemental or salamander. It might pass straight through skeletons.
Possible bad effects include
– Blowing gear off your person
– Burning the air out of the corridor
– Setting everything in the affected radius on fire
– Dropping the ceiling on the party/allies/baddies
– Blinding the party (in dark places)
– Deafening the party (if close enough)
Possible misses include
– It exploding at the tip of the caster’s wand
– It destroying the wand by overloading it
– Addiction?
– Causing a dangerous monster nearby to wake up