Asking here because I know at least a couple have run World of Dungeons: how do you handle wizards’ summoning? Does the wizard have to bargain with the spirit every time? Does that take up time in combat? If so, can the mage ask for certain abilities ahead of time?
Asking here because I know at least a couple have run World of Dungeons: how do you handle wizards’ summoning?
Asking here because I know at least a couple have run World of Dungeons: how do you handle wizards’ summoning?
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The magical abilities are so vague that there’s a real danger of them becoming do-anything powers. “I make a ‘shadow’ boat!” For that reason, yes, I tend to make magic a bit risky – you’ve gotta talk to the spirit, messing up does bad things, and so on.
Another way to go would be to do something like The Warren does when the rabbits try to do something non-rabbity: roll to see how it works. So, do you need to bargain each time? Is it super quick? If yes to both, so be it, but that’s the world the PCs are now in.
Personally, I find the negotiation exhausting; I tend to prefer systems where powers that don’t exist in the real world are a bit clearer, mechanically, just because I’m a softy and can easily find myself playing a pretty potent game with nowhere to go.
The magical abilities are so vague that there’s a real danger of them becoming do-anything powers. “I make a ‘shadow’ boat!” For that reason, yes, I tend to make magic a bit risky – you’ve gotta talk to the spirit, messing up does bad things, and so on.
Another way to go would be to do something like The Warren does when the rabbits try to do something non-rabbity: roll to see how it works. So, do you need to bargain each time? Is it super quick? If yes to both, so be it, but that’s the world the PCs are now in.
Personally, I find the negotiation exhausting; I tend to prefer systems where powers that don’t exist in the real world are a bit clearer, mechanically, just because I’m a softy and can easily find myself playing a pretty potent game with nowhere to go.
Michael Prescott thanks for the insight! I was thinking something like drinking quicksilver let’s you command the spirit’s power for just an instant, but it’s overwhelming and takes some kind of check (probably Int) to pull off effectively, and there might be penalties for especially complex effects. Ritual summoning has you bargaining and the like and there’s a little more leeway for complex effects but obviously the cost in time is significant.
Michael Prescott thanks for the insight! I was thinking something like drinking quicksilver let’s you command the spirit’s power for just an instant, but it’s overwhelming and takes some kind of check (probably Int) to pull off effectively, and there might be penalties for especially complex effects. Ritual summoning has you bargaining and the like and there’s a little more leeway for complex effects but obviously the cost in time is significant.
I just saw this thread. I’m in the middle of prepping for MH this morning, but will check back in later. I have some thoughts here (I run a ton of World of Dungeons and have seen the magic in use pretty extensively). At the outset, though, I will say that I really love the magic system in WoD. I think David LaFreniere and I agree it’s our favorite between it, DW Wizard, and DW Mage.
I just saw this thread. I’m in the middle of prepping for MH this morning, but will check back in later. I have some thoughts here (I run a ton of World of Dungeons and have seen the magic in use pretty extensively). At the outset, though, I will say that I really love the magic system in WoD. I think David LaFreniere and I agree it’s our favorite between it, DW Wizard, and DW Mage.
I remember the magic system for Streets of Marienburg, which is the playset for the Warhammer setting, having a pretty fast, clear magic system. But I played long ago and drank beer simultaneously, so who knows.
I remember the magic system for Streets of Marienburg, which is the playset for the Warhammer setting, having a pretty fast, clear magic system. But I played long ago and drank beer simultaneously, so who knows.
Jason Cordova I was hoping you’d weigh in. Looking forward to it
Jason Cordova I was hoping you’d weigh in. Looking forward to it
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To answer your initial question, I’m not seeing in the rules where it says you have to engage in a bargain each time you summon a spirit. If you take a hit of quicksilver or you are using a magic item, the spirit will be summoned. Otherwise, you engage in an hour of ritual. However, having the spirit require something of the wizard for its services is an easy and reliable 7-9 result on the Risk roll. You don’t have to resolve that negotiation, say, in the middle of combat. You can save it for a later scene (personally, if the wizard was summoning in the middle of combat, I would just make the magic go a little haywire on a 7-9; it’s less trouble, and it makes more sense, fictionally-speaking, since they were under pressure and therefore may not have the same level of control over the spirit).
Generally-speaking, the reason why I really dig the magic system in World of Dungeons is it leads to great fiction. The risks of using quicksilver and the scarcity of magic items means the wizard is usually going to have to engage in an hour of ritual. There is a temptation to hand-wave that hour, but unless the party is back at the village or otherwise in a safe environment where they have plenty of time to perform the ritual, make them feel that hour. Maybe they have some sort of encounter and have to defend the wizard while he performs the ritual. Maybe you can use that hour to have some downtime scenes in the dungeon to get to know the characters a little bit better.
Also, the naming and detailing of spirits, and giving those spirits a personality, is something you can have a lot of fun with.
As for the idea of the magic being overpowered because of the freeform nature of the possible effects, I will give standard PbtA guidance here: there is no such thing as overpowered in PbtA games. If the player asks for something big, they are inviting you to go big in an equivalent way on the 7-9 or miss results. Also, the text of the game implies you will give the spirit discrete instructions, and that if you go beyond that, you are asking for trouble.
To answer your initial question, I’m not seeing in the rules where it says you have to engage in a bargain each time you summon a spirit. If you take a hit of quicksilver or you are using a magic item, the spirit will be summoned. Otherwise, you engage in an hour of ritual. However, having the spirit require something of the wizard for its services is an easy and reliable 7-9 result on the Risk roll. You don’t have to resolve that negotiation, say, in the middle of combat. You can save it for a later scene (personally, if the wizard was summoning in the middle of combat, I would just make the magic go a little haywire on a 7-9; it’s less trouble, and it makes more sense, fictionally-speaking, since they were under pressure and therefore may not have the same level of control over the spirit).
Generally-speaking, the reason why I really dig the magic system in World of Dungeons is it leads to great fiction. The risks of using quicksilver and the scarcity of magic items means the wizard is usually going to have to engage in an hour of ritual. There is a temptation to hand-wave that hour, but unless the party is back at the village or otherwise in a safe environment where they have plenty of time to perform the ritual, make them feel that hour. Maybe they have some sort of encounter and have to defend the wizard while he performs the ritual. Maybe you can use that hour to have some downtime scenes in the dungeon to get to know the characters a little bit better.
Also, the naming and detailing of spirits, and giving those spirits a personality, is something you can have a lot of fun with.
As for the idea of the magic being overpowered because of the freeform nature of the possible effects, I will give standard PbtA guidance here: there is no such thing as overpowered in PbtA games. If the player asks for something big, they are inviting you to go big in an equivalent way on the 7-9 or miss results. Also, the text of the game implies you will give the spirit discrete instructions, and that if you go beyond that, you are asking for trouble.