Care More (possibly part of being a GGG player)
“I don’t care about ___” or “My character wouldn’t care about ___” is an unfortunately common and easy response. I make my character and you make yours, and the GM makes a plot. We focus on our character, their backstory and the way they think and can’t be expected to have an opinion on another character’s hangups or whatever is going on in that village?
But when someone (player or GM) asks you what your character thinks about ___ or what they are doing about __, it is an invitation to care about something. “I don’t care” stops the RP dead and discourages people from involving you in the future. There might be things your character focuses on and other things that they go along with because they know it is important to someone else. But saying your character doesn’t care, is not getting involved and will start paying attention when something better peaks their interest makes it look like you don’t want to play with the other players. You only care about your stuff.
You should come into the game with the assumption that your character is there because he is interested and invested in the group and whatever is going on. Even if it has been established that your characters do not get along, it should not be because they don’t care about what the other is doing. Even if you want to avoid something happening in the world, it should not be because you do not care. Even if your character is totally mercenary, it is because he cares about getting paid. Maybe there are characters who really don’t care, hardcore loners or aloof scholars, but maybe you should leave those to be NPCs and not the focus of the story.
Avoid getting so focused on what your character is doing that you essentially abandon the party. When someone asks you to care, try hard to imagine why you would. Talk to the other player for more info. Maybe they know why you would care or you can tell them what it would take to get your character to care about it. Maybe you can work together to adapt the story to be more interesting. Even if it’s not crucial to your character or there is something more interesting waiting down the road, be there for the other players. Be excited to help them move the fiction in the ways that interest them. At the very least have a conversation, have your character ask why they should care and allow the other character a chance to convince you.
Sorry for the rant.
I think “I don’t care” built up as a resistance to railroading in trad games. There’s an example mission in the Warhammer rpg that assumes you’re going to save a prince who’s been harrying you because you’re heroes. I’ve played it twice and never saved him because there’s no fictional justification for it.
I think “I don’t care” built up as a resistance to railroading in trad games. There’s an example mission in the Warhammer rpg that assumes you’re going to save a prince who’s been harrying you because you’re heroes. I’ve played it twice and never saved him because there’s no fictional justification for it.
Sometimes it can seem hard to add or make changes to an established module but that’s a good example. You DO care that the prince will be killed. He deserves it, maybe you can act to hasten his demise. Or you care because his brother is a thousand times worse. Or maybe you are part of the royal bloodline. Or maybe you care because no one is guarding his treasure at the moment. If you don’t want to do something, suggest a new direction instead of just passing on an opportunity to engage the story
Sometimes it can seem hard to add or make changes to an established module but that’s a good example. You DO care that the prince will be killed. He deserves it, maybe you can act to hasten his demise. Or you care because his brother is a thousand times worse. Or maybe you are part of the royal bloodline. Or maybe you care because no one is guarding his treasure at the moment. If you don’t want to do something, suggest a new direction instead of just passing on an opportunity to engage the story
For some players, I think it is the assumption that they have 100% control of their characters at all times. I’ve seen a conversation in a game that went:
Player 1: “So, I want to have a scene in the cafeteria where I run into your character…”
Player 2: “Oh, my character wouldn’t be in the cafeteria.”
Like Daniel says, if you’re playing, then you have to have buy-in with the other characters and not insist that the game always be about what your character would do and care about.
For some players, I think it is the assumption that they have 100% control of their characters at all times. I’ve seen a conversation in a game that went:
Player 1: “So, I want to have a scene in the cafeteria where I run into your character…”
Player 2: “Oh, my character wouldn’t be in the cafeteria.”
Like Daniel says, if you’re playing, then you have to have buy-in with the other characters and not insist that the game always be about what your character would do and care about.
You can also always address this as people. Say, “I’m having a hard time finding a reason my character would care about this. Any suggestions?”
You can also always address this as people. Say, “I’m having a hard time finding a reason my character would care about this. Any suggestions?”
Phrasing is always important, as you don’t want to dictate the emotions of a person. But also, sometimes you need to ask “why would your character care about this person/thing/place”, and you need to make sure there’s plenty of hooks about it. Especially for a newer player who may not be used to the idea of table buy-in.
Phrasing is always important, as you don’t want to dictate the emotions of a person. But also, sometimes you need to ask “why would your character care about this person/thing/place”, and you need to make sure there’s plenty of hooks about it. Especially for a newer player who may not be used to the idea of table buy-in.
Sometimes this is code for “hey GM, you’re shoehorning in a boring plot. Do better.” Still, that’s not the right way to say that.
Sometimes this is code for “hey GM, you’re shoehorning in a boring plot. Do better.” Still, that’s not the right way to say that.
I don’t think the impetus should be entirely on the players. I think the GM should also provide a fictional hook to get the characters involved, and being a fan of the characters means understanding their motivations and appealing to those.
Now, for example, if at the beginning of a campaign the GM tells the players they’re going to go on a quest to save the kingdom and the players present characters that are all aloof or mercenary or “I only care about ma swamp” types, that might be a bit of a dick move. But the GM could still offer rewards to appeal to those individuals: scholarly knowledge, a fat loot bag, or an official deed to said swamp. I think it goes both ways – a GGG player will try to gear his character towards the adventure – that’s Giving and Game. But a GGG GM should also try to gear the adventure towards the characters, in my opinion.
I don’t think the impetus should be entirely on the players. I think the GM should also provide a fictional hook to get the characters involved, and being a fan of the characters means understanding their motivations and appealing to those.
Now, for example, if at the beginning of a campaign the GM tells the players they’re going to go on a quest to save the kingdom and the players present characters that are all aloof or mercenary or “I only care about ma swamp” types, that might be a bit of a dick move. But the GM could still offer rewards to appeal to those individuals: scholarly knowledge, a fat loot bag, or an official deed to said swamp. I think it goes both ways – a GGG player will try to gear his character towards the adventure – that’s Giving and Game. But a GGG GM should also try to gear the adventure towards the characters, in my opinion.
This is a good exemple of the GGG behavior proposed by Jason Cordova on the DR podcast. “Geared, Game, Giving.” You must play with the groups enjoyment forefront in mind. But players are human beings and we tend to play to way we live. A self-centered person will bring his RL behaviors to the table.
Sometimes though it can just be a lack of experience in story driven games. I would point out the behavior and explain the GGG concept to the player at fault and if this behavior continues suggest they find themselves a different more like-minded group…. (hehehe)
This is a good exemple of the GGG behavior proposed by Jason Cordova on the DR podcast. “Geared, Game, Giving.” You must play with the groups enjoyment forefront in mind. But players are human beings and we tend to play to way we live. A self-centered person will bring his RL behaviors to the table.
Sometimes though it can just be a lack of experience in story driven games. I would point out the behavior and explain the GGG concept to the player at fault and if this behavior continues suggest they find themselves a different more like-minded group…. (hehehe)
I think asking good assumptive establishing questions can really help with this. At the beginning, ask the players, “Why do you want to save the prince?” Or, “How did the prince earn your loyalty?” Or, “When did you fall in love with the prince?” Get over the hump at the beginning, get everybody on the same page, set the stakes ahead of time.
I think asking good assumptive establishing questions can really help with this. At the beginning, ask the players, “Why do you want to save the prince?” Or, “How did the prince earn your loyalty?” Or, “When did you fall in love with the prince?” Get over the hump at the beginning, get everybody on the same page, set the stakes ahead of time.
It is important to state that there are at least two people in each conversation. PCs and GMs are both players. If the other guy says “I don’t care” it’s up to you to ask why? What do you care about? Would you care if….? What would it take to get you to care? “I don’t care” is the player equivalent of the GM saying “nothing happens” it’s a dead end and all players (including GM) need to work to keep the conversation moving
It is important to state that there are at least two people in each conversation. PCs and GMs are both players. If the other guy says “I don’t care” it’s up to you to ask why? What do you care about? Would you care if….? What would it take to get you to care? “I don’t care” is the player equivalent of the GM saying “nothing happens” it’s a dead end and all players (including GM) need to work to keep the conversation moving
So much yes. Especially the part where you say “it is an invitation to care about something.”
It may be prudent to also educate GMs that if this comes up, an important part of the game would be not to ignore the player’s response, but force the dialogue there and then. You’ve already hit a roadblock in the game’s progress with the player’s answer so you may as well have a discussion about why they don’t care. They might actually answer you with the reason. That could let the GM and other player’s start to tease out ideas that the player stating “I don’t care about it” actually feels, but would not have known how to articulate it.
Give your players the benefit of the doubt that they do care, but don’t know how to explain it… or perhaps they have never been in a game where they can be creative in this way and they will benefit from the learning experience.
So much yes. Especially the part where you say “it is an invitation to care about something.”
It may be prudent to also educate GMs that if this comes up, an important part of the game would be not to ignore the player’s response, but force the dialogue there and then. You’ve already hit a roadblock in the game’s progress with the player’s answer so you may as well have a discussion about why they don’t care. They might actually answer you with the reason. That could let the GM and other player’s start to tease out ideas that the player stating “I don’t care about it” actually feels, but would not have known how to articulate it.
Give your players the benefit of the doubt that they do care, but don’t know how to explain it… or perhaps they have never been in a game where they can be creative in this way and they will benefit from the learning experience.
Damian Jankowski great point.
Damian Jankowski great point.
Great points! The other place I see “I don’t care” is when the player isn’t really ready or capable of playing at the moment. It might be that they are distracted by something out of game, or the game itself is not their thing, they don’t know their character and aren’t interested in investing time now to figure them out.
I have a little patience for these players… but at a certain point I get tired of pulling and pushing and just meeting roadblocks and stop trying as hard to include them in scenes. I let the players who are more interested in participating and contributing play. I let them be the wallflower watching the game. Maybe that is the level of participation they want and need now. I don’t view it as my responsibility to constantly push and pull when I’m only being met with roadblocks.
Great points! The other place I see “I don’t care” is when the player isn’t really ready or capable of playing at the moment. It might be that they are distracted by something out of game, or the game itself is not their thing, they don’t know their character and aren’t interested in investing time now to figure them out.
I have a little patience for these players… but at a certain point I get tired of pulling and pushing and just meeting roadblocks and stop trying as hard to include them in scenes. I let the players who are more interested in participating and contributing play. I let them be the wallflower watching the game. Maybe that is the level of participation they want and need now. I don’t view it as my responsibility to constantly push and pull when I’m only being met with roadblocks.
I feel like there’s a design piece here, too. Like, you can design so people’s enthusiasm is engaged. You can design so people know what they’re getting into early on and can opt out. You can design so that threats are guaranteed to be interesting.
I feel like there’s a design piece here, too. Like, you can design so people’s enthusiasm is engaged. You can design so people know what they’re getting into early on and can opt out. You can design so that threats are guaranteed to be interesting.
Yoshi Creelman Definitely if it becomes a chronic issue then yes, I agree it is more than an isolated issue and needs to be dealt with.
Yoshi Creelman Definitely if it becomes a chronic issue then yes, I agree it is more than an isolated issue and needs to be dealt with.
I think everyone does it (I have). It’s should not become another form of the RPG “that guy”. I just want to incurage players and GM’s to watch out for this particular hurdle and consider what to do when it comes up as Damian Jankowski pointed out.
I think everyone does it (I have). It’s should not become another form of the RPG “that guy”. I just want to incurage players and GM’s to watch out for this particular hurdle and consider what to do when it comes up as Damian Jankowski pointed out.
If anyone is confused by the image, that’s Ice-T on Rick and Morty. He is saving the day because he finally cares.
If anyone is confused by the image, that’s Ice-T on Rick and Morty. He is saving the day because he finally cares.