It’s a new episode of +1 Forward, this one’s all about Velvet Glove with Sarah Richardson !!!
Introduction
Sarah’s start with Apocalypse World (00:27)
Read a Sitch
Making memorable NPCs (02:10)
Open Your Brain – Velvet Glove
Overview (06:53)
Mechanical differences with other PbtA games (07:36)
Tell a Man to Cool It move (09:21)
Act Under Fire
A girl, a woman, or in-between? (12:07)
The Alley Cats (14:22)
Timothy (15:56)
Use the Goods (17:16)
Tell a Man to Cool It (20:32)
Links
Buy Velvet Glove
http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/190552/Velvet-Glove-Notebook-Edition
“Tim begins a conversation directed at your nipples.”
An awesome AP, it really hooked me into the concept of this game.
“Tim begins a conversation directed at your nipples.”
An awesome AP, it really hooked me into the concept of this game.
Will you stop making me buy games!
Will you stop making me buy games!
NEVARRRRR, Eadwin Tomlinson
NEVARRRRR, Eadwin Tomlinson
I am really excited to play this! You did awesome Rich! It definitely highlighted for me how the moves are going to snowball to showcase what women go through with men. What the possible reward and the possible consequences are and how angst really underlines non conformity. I have some hesitation about accurately portraying a young woman but I plan on diving into some info like the ashcan suggests. Going to play this on the Riverhouse Games Podcast so want to make sure I can do it justice! I think it’ll be a pretty thought provoking game to play, glad I got it!
I am really excited to play this! You did awesome Rich! It definitely highlighted for me how the moves are going to snowball to showcase what women go through with men. What the possible reward and the possible consequences are and how angst really underlines non conformity. I have some hesitation about accurately portraying a young woman but I plan on diving into some info like the ashcan suggests. Going to play this on the Riverhouse Games Podcast so want to make sure I can do it justice! I think it’ll be a pretty thought provoking game to play, glad I got it!
Great interview. Maybe it is a side-effect of PbtA and moves, but I always love it when these short-form interviews with the game designer hit the mark so succinctly as far as those elements that thematically evoke the game. There is something so pleasant about moves that are written well to that end.
Great interview. Maybe it is a side-effect of PbtA and moves, but I always love it when these short-form interviews with the game designer hit the mark so succinctly as far as those elements that thematically evoke the game. There is something so pleasant about moves that are written well to that end.
The Doombringer returns!
The Doombringer returns!
Holy crap! This game is awesome! Loved the podcast. Sarah Richardson designs killer games and just wow for Velvet Glove.
As other folks have said, the only downside is how much my gaming spend has increased since I found your podcast Richard Rogers!
Holy crap! This game is awesome! Loved the podcast. Sarah Richardson designs killer games and just wow for Velvet Glove.
As other folks have said, the only downside is how much my gaming spend has increased since I found your podcast Richard Rogers!
Loved Sarah Richardson on this episode and looking forward to playing this. Timothy? Really?
Loved Sarah Richardson on this episode and looking forward to playing this. Timothy? Really?
Great AP! Really awesome job, and an amazing commentary on NPC creation.
Now. Call me controversial, this is just my opinion….And it probably will only make sense for the hetero guys here but….I am inviting the 🔥flames! 🔥
The only way I am ever participating in this game, EVER, is at a mixed-gender table.
This AP was so good (and sang beautifully) because Sarah basically gave Rich the green-light to really get into character and just have simple storytelling fun with it.
As an adult, married, hetero, man, I would not want to GM or play in a game where it’s a group of five guys acting like teenage girls for fun. Without the permission/participation of a female, it goes from nerdy, to creepy.
As a group of straight dudes, we can play any game in the universe… and we choose this one?
Great AP! Really awesome job, and an amazing commentary on NPC creation.
Now. Call me controversial, this is just my opinion….And it probably will only make sense for the hetero guys here but….I am inviting the 🔥flames! 🔥
The only way I am ever participating in this game, EVER, is at a mixed-gender table.
This AP was so good (and sang beautifully) because Sarah basically gave Rich the green-light to really get into character and just have simple storytelling fun with it.
As an adult, married, hetero, man, I would not want to GM or play in a game where it’s a group of five guys acting like teenage girls for fun. Without the permission/participation of a female, it goes from nerdy, to creepy.
As a group of straight dudes, we can play any game in the universe… and we choose this one?
Daniel Lugo You’re not the only person I’ve heard express this sentiment since this episode went up. That said, I’m not sure I buy the premise that a group of straight men playing a group of teenage girls is automatically creepy. My own regular cohort of players, comprised almost entirely of straight men, regularly participate in games where we play an all-female cast (Alienor, for example), and I don’t think anyone at the table thinks they’re doing something taboo.
Daniel Lugo You’re not the only person I’ve heard express this sentiment since this episode went up. That said, I’m not sure I buy the premise that a group of straight men playing a group of teenage girls is automatically creepy. My own regular cohort of players, comprised almost entirely of straight men, regularly participate in games where we play an all-female cast (Alienor, for example), and I don’t think anyone at the table thinks they’re doing something taboo.
IMO it’s not much different than getting over the Monsterhearts mental hurdle.
IMO it’s not much different than getting over the Monsterhearts mental hurdle.
I think the point of the game is to engage with it that way in order to get some perspective. I think, like it suggests when reading, I’ll read up on the subject matter a little but the mechanics are there to reinforce what you’re supposed to be doing in the fiction anyways.
My opinion is, If anything I think playing a woman will be easier because it’s all geared towards helping you do so. My feeling is if you engage with it how you are supposed to you wont be creepy at all but probably really informative. Honestly seems like a game guys should play in order to see through a different lens so I definitely intend to. Just make sure you prepare for the game like any other and prep by reading up and watching documentaries or whatever you want to do.
Robert Bohl pointed me towards a great documentary on Kathleen Hanna called “The Punk Singer” , totally amazing. I’ve always been a fan but it really showcases what she herself went through during that time and still continues to go through. Just reading some lyrics from her songs even will be pretty informative.
If this game lets you shed your masculinity in a safe way with your friends to get into the headspace of sister and daughters and friends and mothers, etc — I think it might be one of the most important games I might ever even play. It’d most likely be an invaluable experience as long as I engage with it right.
Edit: Ps: Check out one of Kathleen Hanna’s songs here.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ydo4VS87hBE
I think the point of the game is to engage with it that way in order to get some perspective. I think, like it suggests when reading, I’ll read up on the subject matter a little but the mechanics are there to reinforce what you’re supposed to be doing in the fiction anyways.
My opinion is, If anything I think playing a woman will be easier because it’s all geared towards helping you do so. My feeling is if you engage with it how you are supposed to you wont be creepy at all but probably really informative. Honestly seems like a game guys should play in order to see through a different lens so I definitely intend to. Just make sure you prepare for the game like any other and prep by reading up and watching documentaries or whatever you want to do.
Robert Bohl pointed me towards a great documentary on Kathleen Hanna called “The Punk Singer” , totally amazing. I’ve always been a fan but it really showcases what she herself went through during that time and still continues to go through. Just reading some lyrics from her songs even will be pretty informative.
If this game lets you shed your masculinity in a safe way with your friends to get into the headspace of sister and daughters and friends and mothers, etc — I think it might be one of the most important games I might ever even play. It’d most likely be an invaluable experience as long as I engage with it right.
Edit: Ps: Check out one of Kathleen Hanna’s songs here.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ydo4VS87hBE
Jason Cordova I promise I wont do a huge back and forth, I’ll limit myself to this one reply, for the sake of clarity: I agree it doesn’t ‘automatically’ make someone a creep.
For one, those deeply involved in the RPG world can appreciate the activity as a hobby, are there to socialise and use any set of rules to tell a story, and that’s it. After all, what’s wrong with telling a story about female characters?… Absolutely nothing!
Lets cast our gaze a little wider though. “Honey, I’m gonna go hang out with guys for our weekly game.”
“What game? What’s it about?”
“Well every week, Me, Jeff, Bill, and Andy play four sexy high-school girls in a gang. It’s such an awesome game.”
” You do…. WHAT? You realise we HAVE a teenage daughter, right?”
And finally, if I feel the desire to play Dungeon World, it’s because life is boring and safe and at times, and I want adventure. Also the laughs from playing sports and games with others consistently “Give me life.”
I think if a bunch of hetero dudes want to get together and play “Velvet Glove,” especially if it is on a regular basis, they should at least take a careful look at what “Gives them life.”
Jason Cordova I promise I wont do a huge back and forth, I’ll limit myself to this one reply, for the sake of clarity: I agree it doesn’t ‘automatically’ make someone a creep.
For one, those deeply involved in the RPG world can appreciate the activity as a hobby, are there to socialise and use any set of rules to tell a story, and that’s it. After all, what’s wrong with telling a story about female characters?… Absolutely nothing!
Lets cast our gaze a little wider though. “Honey, I’m gonna go hang out with guys for our weekly game.”
“What game? What’s it about?”
“Well every week, Me, Jeff, Bill, and Andy play four sexy high-school girls in a gang. It’s such an awesome game.”
” You do…. WHAT? You realise we HAVE a teenage daughter, right?”
And finally, if I feel the desire to play Dungeon World, it’s because life is boring and safe and at times, and I want adventure. Also the laughs from playing sports and games with others consistently “Give me life.”
I think if a bunch of hetero dudes want to get together and play “Velvet Glove,” especially if it is on a regular basis, they should at least take a careful look at what “Gives them life.”
Let me elaborate on the mental hurdle of Monsterhearts and also Velvet Glove. It’s tough subject matter, especially for a dad of a 16 yo daughter. But I know if I power through the squeamishness of these games, I might just emerge on the other side having a better idea of the shit my wife (woman of color) and my daughter have to and will go through everyday at school, work, at the grocery store, airport, etc. And perhaps it will incense me enough to do something to change the world. At the very least, just be able to listen with a slightly less uninformed ear. I don’t play games like this to tokenize women, minorities, trans folk, the poor, or others that struggle beyond the stuff everyone has to deal, I want to play games like this because I think its good for me to walk a mile in their shoes. At least simulate it. It’s not real. It’s not perfect. And after doing so, I’m not presumptuous enough to say, “Oh I understand what you go through now”, because I still won’t. It’s still just make believe. But it counts for something. So, thanks to Sarah Richardson and Mark Diaz Truman and Jason Morningstar and many many others for making games like this.
Let me elaborate on the mental hurdle of Monsterhearts and also Velvet Glove. It’s tough subject matter, especially for a dad of a 16 yo daughter. But I know if I power through the squeamishness of these games, I might just emerge on the other side having a better idea of the shit my wife (woman of color) and my daughter have to and will go through everyday at school, work, at the grocery store, airport, etc. And perhaps it will incense me enough to do something to change the world. At the very least, just be able to listen with a slightly less uninformed ear. I don’t play games like this to tokenize women, minorities, trans folk, the poor, or others that struggle beyond the stuff everyone has to deal, I want to play games like this because I think its good for me to walk a mile in their shoes. At least simulate it. It’s not real. It’s not perfect. And after doing so, I’m not presumptuous enough to say, “Oh I understand what you go through now”, because I still won’t. It’s still just make believe. But it counts for something. So, thanks to Sarah Richardson and Mark Diaz Truman and Jason Morningstar and many many others for making games like this.
Fraser Simons Thank you for sharing that song. Actually, I think that exemplifies what you were saying about understanding women in that time period in a very profound way, in just a few minutes.
See, guys like you and Jason are just so… open and cool about things, that you may be giving too many OTHER people the benefit of the doubt.
As for “Velvet Glove” I doubt all the people who play it are going to play it as a deep thought experiment to understand the struggles of women in a paternalistic society. 😒
Fraser Simons Thank you for sharing that song. Actually, I think that exemplifies what you were saying about understanding women in that time period in a very profound way, in just a few minutes.
See, guys like you and Jason are just so… open and cool about things, that you may be giving too many OTHER people the benefit of the doubt.
As for “Velvet Glove” I doubt all the people who play it are going to play it as a deep thought experiment to understand the struggles of women in a paternalistic society. 😒
Totally agree with Timothy Bennett . It will probably make you semi uncomfortable and it kind of well, should–right? You don’t even have to play a sexy teen age girl, you just need to play a girl or woman in the game. If this lets me understand someone else’s perspective, it’s invaluable to me. You could tell your wife that you are trying a new game that tries to get you in the headspace of what teenagers and women go through everyday, even more so in the past. The conversation would be radically different depending on how you breach it. Society as a whole has taught men to be macho, toxic masculinity is now something that we have to unlearn. If this game makes a safe space to experiment shedding that and just to see what happens, I think that’s exactly what we oughta do!
I understand some subject matter isn’t for everyone, and that’s cool. I am not meaning to attack you or anything like that, ultimately people have to decide if they want to engage with the kinds of things the game is trying to do, of course.
Totally agree with Timothy Bennett . It will probably make you semi uncomfortable and it kind of well, should–right? You don’t even have to play a sexy teen age girl, you just need to play a girl or woman in the game. If this lets me understand someone else’s perspective, it’s invaluable to me. You could tell your wife that you are trying a new game that tries to get you in the headspace of what teenagers and women go through everyday, even more so in the past. The conversation would be radically different depending on how you breach it. Society as a whole has taught men to be macho, toxic masculinity is now something that we have to unlearn. If this game makes a safe space to experiment shedding that and just to see what happens, I think that’s exactly what we oughta do!
I understand some subject matter isn’t for everyone, and that’s cool. I am not meaning to attack you or anything like that, ultimately people have to decide if they want to engage with the kinds of things the game is trying to do, of course.
True Daniel Lugo, but one of my favorite CS Lewis quotes is “if you stand next to the fire, you’ll get warm.” Cast a wide net and you’ll catch some fish. Maybe not every fish… But that counts for something.
True Daniel Lugo, but one of my favorite CS Lewis quotes is “if you stand next to the fire, you’ll get warm.” Cast a wide net and you’ll catch some fish. Maybe not every fish… But that counts for something.
Daniel Lugo in short–fuck those people. They aren’t engaging with the game in good spirit so the only people that are held accountable are themselves. You can take any game with problematic subject material and see people engage with it poorly, but if you don’t and you do, you’ll get a really unique experience that’ll stay with you for the rest of your life!
Daniel Lugo in short–fuck those people. They aren’t engaging with the game in good spirit so the only people that are held accountable are themselves. You can take any game with problematic subject material and see people engage with it poorly, but if you don’t and you do, you’ll get a really unique experience that’ll stay with you for the rest of your life!
I think if a bunch of hetero dudes want to get together and play “Velvet Glove,” especially if it is on a regular basis, they should at least take a careful look at what “Gives them life.”
Daniel Lugo What does that even mean? I mean, ultimately, play whatever you feel comfortable playing. I’m not here to judge anyone’s choices in that regard. But this statement seems to suggest there is something deviant about a bunch of guys wanting to play Velvet Glove on a regular basis. Am I reading that incorrectly?
I think if a bunch of hetero dudes want to get together and play “Velvet Glove,” especially if it is on a regular basis, they should at least take a careful look at what “Gives them life.”
Daniel Lugo What does that even mean? I mean, ultimately, play whatever you feel comfortable playing. I’m not here to judge anyone’s choices in that regard. But this statement seems to suggest there is something deviant about a bunch of guys wanting to play Velvet Glove on a regular basis. Am I reading that incorrectly?
I wanna point out too, Daniel. I’m not angry or anything, I do use language like that sometimes when I’m fired up about something so wanted to clarify. I’m not sure if Jason is angry or not, but if you do think there is something deviant about it — I would express it and why, I’m not going to judge or start an argument about it and you’re entitled to your own opinion. But I hope you allow me/us to give you more information so that you might think differently in the future.
In short, I just want to have a dialogue about what you think and why, not an argument!
I wanna point out too, Daniel. I’m not angry or anything, I do use language like that sometimes when I’m fired up about something so wanted to clarify. I’m not sure if Jason is angry or not, but if you do think there is something deviant about it — I would express it and why, I’m not going to judge or start an argument about it and you’re entitled to your own opinion. But I hope you allow me/us to give you more information so that you might think differently in the future.
In short, I just want to have a dialogue about what you think and why, not an argument!
Oh, I’m not angry about anything. I’m not even trying to convince anyone to play this game. There are lots of games out there, and people should feel free to do whatever they feel comfortable doing.
Oh, I’m not angry about anything. I’m not even trying to convince anyone to play this game. There are lots of games out there, and people should feel free to do whatever they feel comfortable doing.
I thought so, just didn’t want to speak for you! And just wanted to make sure Daniel felt safe to express whatever he is thinking about that stuff. I’m always interested in a different opinion. And while my goal is necessarily to have him change his mind and play the game, I would offer an opinion of why I don’t think it’s deviant and probably pretty progressive? And maybe even important to engage with materials that feel that way. If I can have fun and be taught something, that is an experience I won’t soon forget. My beliefs need to be tested though, so I welcome dissent!
I thought so, just didn’t want to speak for you! And just wanted to make sure Daniel felt safe to express whatever he is thinking about that stuff. I’m always interested in a different opinion. And while my goal is necessarily to have him change his mind and play the game, I would offer an opinion of why I don’t think it’s deviant and probably pretty progressive? And maybe even important to engage with materials that feel that way. If I can have fun and be taught something, that is an experience I won’t soon forget. My beliefs need to be tested though, so I welcome dissent!
Jason Cordova
Deviant is an incredibly loaded term. Bigots and Judges like to use that term to describe people. I’m not either of those things.
I mean it in the sense that you should take a quick moment to ask yourself why you are playing a game about playing an underage girl where one of your “Stats” is “Pussy.”
If you’ve got a good reason, (as I have seen in the comments above,) hey man, green light. If not, then maybe I don’t let you talk to my niece or daughter. :-/ Sorry.
Jason Cordova
Deviant is an incredibly loaded term. Bigots and Judges like to use that term to describe people. I’m not either of those things.
I mean it in the sense that you should take a quick moment to ask yourself why you are playing a game about playing an underage girl where one of your “Stats” is “Pussy.”
If you’ve got a good reason, (as I have seen in the comments above,) hey man, green light. If not, then maybe I don’t let you talk to my niece or daughter. :-/ Sorry.
When I would schedule Monsterhearts or HGMO in FtF Houston, I would have people tell me in an aside a week or two before the session they didn’t feel comfortable playing it. I think they wanted me to convince them everything would be ok, and that I would hold their hand and help them grow into it or whatever, but I always responded with “Well, it’s probably not the game for you, so you should probably give up your spot to someone else.” I literally never feel the need to make gaming some kind of teaching tool. We’re all adults. I want to play with people who are ready to take a game seriously on its merits. I have no desire to convince people to do something they feel uncomfortable doing.
When I would schedule Monsterhearts or HGMO in FtF Houston, I would have people tell me in an aside a week or two before the session they didn’t feel comfortable playing it. I think they wanted me to convince them everything would be ok, and that I would hold their hand and help them grow into it or whatever, but I always responded with “Well, it’s probably not the game for you, so you should probably give up your spot to someone else.” I literally never feel the need to make gaming some kind of teaching tool. We’re all adults. I want to play with people who are ready to take a game seriously on its merits. I have no desire to convince people to do something they feel uncomfortable doing.
That’s fair, and you’ve also got a lot more gaming experience under your belt than me. And ultimately the goal of the games is to have fun — with a social contract in place that describes what the experience is going to be like beforehand, people there should know what they’re going for and trying to do with the experience for sure. And if it’s not their thing opting out without issue is important. If it’s being used to teach or explore a specific issue everyone should already be in on it beforehand.
Some games are going to naturally teach you something but getting you into a head space of a character, such as Velvet Glove, Clay that Woke, Monsterhearts, My life with master, The Quiet Year, The Watch. Maybe being taught something is the wrong term for what I’m going for though, just learning something from the portrayal of that character, I guess? Just being some white dude can be fun in some games but being a little uncomfortable and trying to do something else seems more fun to me is all.
That’s fair, and you’ve also got a lot more gaming experience under your belt than me. And ultimately the goal of the games is to have fun — with a social contract in place that describes what the experience is going to be like beforehand, people there should know what they’re going for and trying to do with the experience for sure. And if it’s not their thing opting out without issue is important. If it’s being used to teach or explore a specific issue everyone should already be in on it beforehand.
Some games are going to naturally teach you something but getting you into a head space of a character, such as Velvet Glove, Clay that Woke, Monsterhearts, My life with master, The Quiet Year, The Watch. Maybe being taught something is the wrong term for what I’m going for though, just learning something from the portrayal of that character, I guess? Just being some white dude can be fun in some games but being a little uncomfortable and trying to do something else seems more fun to me is all.
And Daniel Lugo, I hope you don’t think I’m attacking you or anything. I simply had a hard time accepting the underlying premise of what you were saying. Your perspective of someone with a teenage daughter is a legit one. I’m a gay man without kids, so I’m coming at it from a different place.
I do wish you hadn’t framed your initial comment in terms of inviting a flame war, because that’s definitely not how we roll in the Gauntlet. We have done an exceedingly good job keeping our discussions civil, and I kind of feel like you framing your comment that way was a little bit against the spirit of what we do here.
And Daniel Lugo, I hope you don’t think I’m attacking you or anything. I simply had a hard time accepting the underlying premise of what you were saying. Your perspective of someone with a teenage daughter is a legit one. I’m a gay man without kids, so I’m coming at it from a different place.
I do wish you hadn’t framed your initial comment in terms of inviting a flame war, because that’s definitely not how we roll in the Gauntlet. We have done an exceedingly good job keeping our discussions civil, and I kind of feel like you framing your comment that way was a little bit against the spirit of what we do here.
What Timothy Bennett said (as usual)
What Timothy Bennett said (as usual)
Oh yes, btw to anyone on this thread, on my end, everything is totally cool. I started this, lol.
I appreciate thoughtful discussion. I think everyone wins when people bring up conflicting viewpoints maturely. I did want to share my thoughts though, because I know there are others must be thinking it too, and they could benefit from this playing out.
Oh yes, btw to anyone on this thread, on my end, everything is totally cool. I started this, lol.
I appreciate thoughtful discussion. I think everyone wins when people bring up conflicting viewpoints maturely. I did want to share my thoughts though, because I know there are others must be thinking it too, and they could benefit from this playing out.
Ok, well I think we’ve all made our points here. I’m going to reflect on the discussion that took place in this thread. In the meantime, Richard Rogers, I think we should probably go ahead and close this one up.
Ok, well I think we’ve all made our points here. I’m going to reflect on the discussion that took place in this thread. In the meantime, Richard Rogers, I think we should probably go ahead and close this one up.
Jason Cordova Sorry, about the framing. Legitimately.
I was doing that thing where you address the potential elephant in the room first so that no one would mistake me for being mindlessly obstinate or ignorant.
Jason Cordova Sorry, about the framing. Legitimately.
I was doing that thing where you address the potential elephant in the room first so that no one would mistake me for being mindlessly obstinate or ignorant.