(edit to add: put comments here or on the original post, as you choose)
Originally shared by Jeremy Strandberg
If you’re familiar with both Dungeon World and Apocalypse World, you might have noticed a difference in their “GM/MC” chapters: in Dungeon World, the GM moves are described but given no examples. In Apocalypse World, the GM moves are named, not really described, but instead they are demonstrated almost entirely with examples.
I think newer DW GMs sometimes struggle with visualizing how those GM moves might manifest at the table. So let’s collaborate on a list of 2-4 examples for each basic and dungeon GM move.
● Give an opportunity that fits a class’ abilities
● Show a downside to their class, race, or equipment
● Offer an opportunity, with or without cost
● Put someone in a spot
● Tell them the requirements or consequences and ask
DUNGEON MOVES
● Change the environment
● Point to a looming threat
● Introduce a new faction or type of creature
● Use a threat from an existing faction or type of creature
● Make them backtrack
● Present riches at a price
● Present a challenge to one of the characters
Put your examples in the comments, with both the name of the GM move and the example. Make the examples short and sweet, ideally 50 words or less, definitely no more than 100.
Let’s try to get a range of soft, medium, and hard moves for each. If we can get enough good ones, I’ll curate this into a nice formal doc.
I’m listening to an older +1 Forward episode, and it’s highlighting for me something that might explain why I’ve…
I’m listening to an older +1 Forward episode, and it’s highlighting for me something that might explain why I’ve been having trouble getting into PbtA games. For me what grabs me about a roleplaying game is the setting. I’m fine with (in fact am a big fan of) creating the local setting around the PCs at the table. But for the larger setting as a whole, especially things like metaphysics, and cultures? That’s something that really drives me to play a game. If I find something about the setting that I really enjoy I will then love the game as a whole. Collaboratively creating that at the table, especially in play means it will always be a lackluster curiosity for me, rather than something that gets me all excited.
Anyway, I thought I would share that. It makes me sad, because there are a lot of things that Apocalypse World does mechanically and have been carried on in other games that I really like, but it seems like one thing that also gets carried forward is an aversion to a rich setting.
I think it’s important to critically examine whether we — as players, GMs or designers — have contributed to the myth of an all-white medieval Europe. I know I have. Until very recently, I thought that the presence of a character of color in any pseudo-historical medieval game setting required special explanation. I later revised my position to: If there are elves, then why can’t there be PoC? — as if the two were equally fantastical!
My revised position still left the problem: If I was playing in a game that aimed at greater historical accuracy, then I still felt like whiteness had to be the norm. Games that I otherwise really enjoy unfortunately fall into this trap — for example, in Witch: The Road to Lindisfarne, all of the characters are drawn as white (with the exception of Elouise, who is not illustrated at all).
I think we have a responsibility to disabuse ourselves of the myth of an all-white medieval Europe and make sure we aren’t propagating that myth in our games. Otherwise, we are reinforcing a viewpoint that is not only historically inaccurate but also exclusionary, that effectively tells players of color that if they want to play a character who looks like themselves then their existence in this imaginary space requires special justification, and that feeds into a sick fascist fantasy of racial purity.
I was recently watching a DW session on Youtube when I started mulling over the bard’s Arcane Art move and how difficult it is sometimes to insert it in the fiction. Eventually I came up with a few moves to change a bard into something more akin to a thespian.
The core concept is partly inspired by the Discworld novels, where “Stories” are often described as having a mind of their own and “wanting” to repeat themselves, much like the One Ring “wants” to be found.
Tell me what you think about it and feel free to comment, especially if you find errors or can suggest a better way of saying things.
Problems with Paladins and how to Play them without Punishing your Pals.
Problems with Paladins and how to Play them without Punishing your Pals.
read in a funny voice
Alignment nuts: “I had to murder that woman because she was running from the guards. She must have been evil, I’m obviously playing lawful good.”
Jerks playing Jerks: “First chance I get I tell the guards that you stole the mcguffin stone from their fortress. Did I mention that my character is constantly watching you guys to make sure you don’t break the law or do evil things? I have to because i am lawful good.”
Quest is game breaking: “This adventure is called Rage of the Fire God, so I want to start off with a quest to kill the fire god, dragon, whatever so I can be immune to fire. I was already planning to play lawful good so I don’t mind having to be honorable.”
I am the law sucks: “Why would I ever use this if the DM can attack me on a hit? Unrelated, but have I mentioned yet that I am lawful good?”
read in a slightly more serious voice
Like many people I have read about and experienced some pretty terrible sessions that centered around a player (often new to the group, often never appearing again) who eagerly grabbed up the paladin character sheet and then proceeded to be a huge pain both to the other players and their characters. I don’t have any advice for dealing with these players beyond telling them to stop or leave. Despite the joke-y quotes above, this is not a rant about alignment (see earlier rant). Instead I wanted to take a few minutes to give my perspective on how to play the paladin in a way that is fun for you and the other players. The move specific parts are for Dungeon world but most of the attitude stuff should be universal.
Fundamentally the paladin is a warrior (not always armed or armored) who believes and fights for something. This something can be a god or religious belief. It could be the authority of the king, church, government, or other organization. It could be as simple as their own code of ethics or chivalry. But wait, how do they cast magic if not in service to a god? The answer is: You tell me, but honestly this is a magic fantasy land so pretty much anything works. Maybe their lay-on-hands is completely mundane and shows their skills as a medic or inspiring leader.
The trick to playing the paladin right (IMO) is in sticking to this belief, being honest about and eager to explore situations where it becomes inconvenient, and not forcing your burden on your friends.
(note: the following antidote probably greatly simplifies and misrepresents a whole branch of philosophy)
A philosophy of law student might tell you that Spock is a utilitarian, believing the right action is always the one that maximizes good for the majority, when he says “the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few” and sacrifices himself to save the ship. You should point out that Spock sacrifices himself, instead of pushing a much less mission critical red shirts into the radiation chamber to die. Maybe Spock even took the time to way out the value of his life verses the ensign to the survival of the ship and crew, before making his choice, maybe not. His choice and actions makes him an epic hero, not a mindless ethics equation. Then neck pinch that jerk into unconsciousness as punishment for soiling the good name of Spock.
No one wants to hangout with or trust a mindless psycho robot who is only waiting to entangle them in its personal hang ups. No band of adventures would tolerate this behavior in the group. But people can respect and appreciate the person who holds themselves to a high standard, who doesn’t back down or abandon their principles and doesn’t force their beliefs on their friends. Play the paladin when you want to be the epic hero, the shining knight. The one who stands alone against the hopeless threat while others make their escape. Who exchanges themselves for the hostage. Who does the job to the end despite the costs. You might die heroically, or succeed epic-ly, or you might have an amazing scene where your friends decide to stand with you. This is the right way to play the Paladin.
Meta-Gaming-wise, this is the reason the paladin has so many defensive / survival and leadership moves. They are designed for hard use. Feel free to armor up before making your stand and asking the GM to give your their best shot. Be useful and inspiring to your friends and they might follow you, or at least launch a rescue later. You may even feel the need to retire the character when they have to go it alone, or face judgment while the party runs off. Give them an epilogue, roll a new character and maybe bring them back in a future game. They can be even more epic after suffering punishment or completing a hard quest alone.
On the subject of the Dungeon World Quest move: it is very tempting to try to abuse it as a player, or nerf it as a GM. The most obvious benefit is the immunity to some type of damage.
As a player I would only suggest that you occasionally pick something else. Challenge yourself to get benefit and great fiction out of the other choices. Pick it when it makes sense, but don’t force a quest just for this benefit.
More to the point, your paladin should always be on a quest in fiction but maybe you should wait to engage the move when fictionally appropriate. Maybe your party was just betrayed or the bad guy just showed up and wrecked your face. Describe what it looks like when you recover and take a moment to go through a personal ritual swearing a quest of vengeance. Maybe a friend just died and you take some memento and attach it to your armor. Later the monster that slew them is surprised when its attack doesn’t affect you. Maybe you are literally talking to a god and in accepting its quest you ask for a couple boons like a voice that transcends language or a mark of its divine authority.
As a GM I would suggest that you not worry to much about “Game Breaking” its the players job to be epic and your job to be a fan of it when it happens. Alternatively you do have to keep the adventure interesting. Do not immediately go into your notes and replace every bandit sword with a club, or fire breathing dragon with a acid spitting one. Do ask the player what it looks like when they ignore this damage and what it might imply in fiction. Maybe the enemies decide to ignore what they can not hurt and go after easier prey. maybe the shattering blade trap makes a lot of noise and attracts attention. Maybe the party must split while the paladin swims the acid lake and they are both attacked, the paladin must fight alone and the others must survive without their tank.
On the subject of the dungeon world I am the Law move: it is hard to immediately see the benefit of this move over a defy danger with charisma. It is important to remember that the GM should be a fan of your character and not just out to kill you. This doesn’t mean that they will never pick the “They attack you” option but they shouldn’t pick it all the time. More importantly, and going back to my earlier talk about playing epic-ly, you should engage this move when your paladin is willing to be attacked. Maybe they are willing to risk it in order to spare their friends, or they simply believe strongly that trying to end a conflict, or give a command is important enough to risk danger. Some of the most powerful moves in Dungeon world are the ones that are always dangerous even on a 10+.
Meta-gaming wise: Attacking you is not always fictional appropriate. An armored knight waving a holy symbol, giving orders to a non hostile villager is unlikely to result in a mob (not guaranteed). Maybe in the middle of a siege, the NPC Rookie guardsmen hesitate to follow the instructions of another party member, that is when you grab them, stand them up and remind them of their duty and your holy authority. They might run away but it’s less likely they will attack in any immediate way. Finally, I always turn to this move when I can’t imagine anything else working. The monster has incapacitated your friends and shrugs off your best strikes, you have nothing to turn to but your beliefs. Hold forth your holy symbol and hope you roll well… Your GM may appreciate your boldness, failing that they may let your friends escape.
Sorry for the long post. Let me know what you think. Have any great stories of heroic paladins? Have any problems with other moves on the Paladin sheet? Am I totally wrong and the only correct way to play the paladin is as Judge Dread?
So we ended up dropping The Veil of the campaign I had. A lot of player rotation and a few other things. It was a blast but our dynamic changed too much. Now we have a new group assembled and we settled on Fourth World, the hack of Dungeon World. (Action Movie World was a close second and will be an interlude game when the one player who doesn’t really feel it is absent) that I really like a lot of the changes too (like aiding, some of the depth and flavor) but also a lot is “out there” and I’m wondering if there’s any advice on how to treat players differently.
I’ve run dungeon world about 11 times and a lot more pbta sessions so that’s par for the course, but are there any good advice touchstones for, say, “naming art” or a different way to approach the story telling?
If it helps, the players are going for a low area type story or one that doesn’t have the world ending stakes. the anime “Konosuba” was a touchstone along stuff like Harvest Moon & and Spiderman Homecoming.
I’m an avid actual play listener and have played PBTA games here and there (Epyllion, Dungeon World, Blades in the Dark, The Sprawl…).
I’m looking to run World of Dungeons specifically, and I was wondering what basic/special moves (if any) you experienced GMs have pulled from Dungeon World which you felt enhanced the experience.
Any additional thoughts or advice for an experienced GM who is new to running WoDu and PBTA games is appreciated.
To celebrate, I’m catching up on some Star Wars Rebels episodes that I missed and preparing tomorrow’s game of Impulse Drive set in the SW original trilogy timeline.
What are you doing to celebrate Star Wars Day?
(warning – I’m moderating this thread, if you’ve got nothing nice to say, it won’t be on here long)
A growing fact of our hobby is how many people are enjoying it mostly as observers.
A growing fact of our hobby is how many people are enjoying it mostly as observers. What parts of games make it better for you as a player in streamed games? What make you more or less likely to run a system if you know you’re going to stream it? And most importantly, what do you love/hate most when watching streamed games?
This is not a thread to bash on streamers or those watching. I will moderate heavily.
Out of context product plug. No affiliate link or anything. Since I regularly play Hangouts games away from home, I decided to pick up a headset so I wouldn’t have to set up a fancy mic and try to get it close enough to my mouth to not be echoey. This one is barely over 20 bucks on Amazon, and has been performing well for a few months.
