Well, it took less than a day for certain OSR actors to come after us because of Fear of a Black Dragon.

Well, it took less than a day for certain OSR actors to come after us because of Fear of a Black Dragon.

Well, it took less than a day for certain OSR actors to come after us because of Fear of a Black Dragon.

It’s hard being the person who doesn’t give a shit about old grievances, and who just wants to have fun playing and discussing RPGs.

152 thoughts on “Well, it took less than a day for certain OSR actors to come after us because of Fear of a Black Dragon.”

  3. That is sad. I listened to the podcast last night and I didn’t think you or your co-host said anything controversial or even highly critical. Unfortunately, there are some folks in the OSR who are just assholes.

  4. That is sad. I listened to the podcast last night and I didn’t think you or your co-host said anything controversial or even highly critical. Unfortunately, there are some folks in the OSR who are just assholes.

  5. What the hell. I’m sorry its hard, and I want you to know I greatly appreciate a place where people just want to have fun playing and discussing RPGs. It’s one of the many reasons I want to support The Gauntlet. And whatever support I can offer to you, Jason, I hope you know you have it. You all are doing good work!

  6. What the hell. I’m sorry its hard, and I want you to know I greatly appreciate a place where people just want to have fun playing and discussing RPGs. It’s one of the many reasons I want to support The Gauntlet. And whatever support I can offer to you, Jason, I hope you know you have it. You all are doing good work!

  9. I don’t know what the grievances could have been but I find it amazing that anyone could gripe. There is nothing about this podcast that jumps out as a surprise. If it isn’t what they’re looking for, they should find something they are.

  10. I don’t know what the grievances could have been but I find it amazing that anyone could gripe. There is nothing about this podcast that jumps out as a surprise. If it isn’t what they’re looking for, they should find something they are.

  15. The main thread I’m paying attention to (for some fucking reason) is mostly just tying us to the fact that we once had Rob Bohl and Anna Kreider on our shows, therefore nothing we say can be trusted. Also, we are idiots who don’t know anything about the OSR. I’m pretty sure said actor did not actually listen to FoaBD.

  16. The main thread I’m paying attention to (for some fucking reason) is mostly just tying us to the fact that we once had Rob Bohl and Anna Kreider on our shows, therefore nothing we say can be trusted. Also, we are idiots who don’t know anything about the OSR. I’m pretty sure said actor did not actually listen to FoaBD.

  19. The whole story games / OSR divide is a false dichotomy to begin with but why people can’t just enjoy the hobby without taking sides – and talking trash about “the other side” – is beyond me. Just ignore the noise, Jason, and do your thing.

  20. The whole story games / OSR divide is a false dichotomy to begin with but why people can’t just enjoy the hobby without taking sides – and talking trash about “the other side” – is beyond me. Just ignore the noise, Jason, and do your thing.

  23. Exactly Horst Wurst! I can’t understand what’s so hard about letting other people make the hobby work for them. I like food but I don’t have a tantrum when other people don’t like the same food I do or prepare it the same way.

  24. Exactly Horst Wurst! I can’t understand what’s so hard about letting other people make the hobby work for them. I like food but I don’t have a tantrum when other people don’t like the same food I do or prepare it the same way.

  25. Horst Wurst I agree that the whole OSR vs Story Game divide is nonsense, but i know of at least one OSR guy who bangs that drum long and hard and often. Craziness.

  26. Horst Wurst I agree that the whole OSR vs Story Game divide is nonsense, but i know of at least one OSR guy who bangs that drum long and hard and often. Craziness.

  27. What really gets under my skin about this is that FoaBD encourages more people to enjoy OSR stuff. The more interest, the more content. That can ONLY be a good thing if you like OSR material. Why would you take a dump on something that’s working for your cause?

  28. What really gets under my skin about this is that FoaBD encourages more people to enjoy OSR stuff. The more interest, the more content. That can ONLY be a good thing if you like OSR material. Why would you take a dump on something that’s working for your cause?

  29. I’d probably have a harder time thinking of which of my friends don’t like OSR than do. The split is total fabricated nonsense, existing (as far as I can tell) to drive certain people’s marketing personas.

  30. I’d probably have a harder time thinking of which of my friends don’t like OSR than do. The split is total fabricated nonsense, existing (as far as I can tell) to drive certain people’s marketing personas.

  31. Best case scenario: Someone grounded in the OSR community starts a podcast to take an even-handed look at new school games. Maybe the two of you could drive a golden spike in a sunny stretch of dirt on the outskirts southeast of Dungeon World.

  32. Best case scenario: Someone grounded in the OSR community starts a podcast to take an even-handed look at new school games. Maybe the two of you could drive a golden spike in a sunny stretch of dirt on the outskirts southeast of Dungeon World.

  33. Logan Howard That’s the part I will never understand. I’ve had a lot of people tell me they have purchased and enjoyed OSR things they wouldn’t have before because of my recommendations. I’m not saying anyone in the OSR owes me shit, but why would you complain about someone trying to expand that part of the hobby?

  34. Logan Howard That’s the part I will never understand. I’ve had a lot of people tell me they have purchased and enjoyed OSR things they wouldn’t have before because of my recommendations. I’m not saying anyone in the OSR owes me shit, but why would you complain about someone trying to expand that part of the hobby?

  35. I admit I’ve generally avoided OSR because certain voices acting in certain ways relating to game design and control of the discourse. I figured you guys would probably be the ones to sell me on how it’s actually pretty cool to do OSR. You are the reasons I bought The Indie Hack, after all.

    Gatekeeping behaviours from folks ultimately only serve to shrink the potential audience. Sorry to hear about what you’ve read from that side of the community and I look forward to hearing the podcast.

  36. I admit I’ve generally avoided OSR because certain voices acting in certain ways relating to game design and control of the discourse. I figured you guys would probably be the ones to sell me on how it’s actually pretty cool to do OSR. You are the reasons I bought The Indie Hack, after all.

    Gatekeeping behaviours from folks ultimately only serve to shrink the potential audience. Sorry to hear about what you’ve read from that side of the community and I look forward to hearing the podcast.

  41. To be completely fair, I’m not talking about the OSR community as a whole, which I think, like any community, doesn’t deserve to be generalized. I’m talking about very specific, noisy actors with outsized voices in that community.

  42. To be completely fair, I’m not talking about the OSR community as a whole, which I think, like any community, doesn’t deserve to be generalized. I’m talking about very specific, noisy actors with outsized voices in that community.

  43. I feel like identity politics warps almost everything. People take sides and lash out on the smallest issues because they can’t find value in just being who they are. They cling to any little scrap that will help define them and savage anyone that might have a different definition.

  44. I feel like identity politics warps almost everything. People take sides and lash out on the smallest issues because they can’t find value in just being who they are. They cling to any little scrap that will help define them and savage anyone that might have a different definition.

  45. Jason Cordova “why would you complain about someone trying to expand that part of the hobby” Well, without knowing who is complaining I can only guess, but there are some in the OSR community who have proclaimed themselves as leaders/saviors/prophets of the OSR, and any other voice that speaks – especially if that voice does not follow their party line – diminshes them.

    Then some folks dislike other folks for political or social issues, and would attack them or anyone associated to them just to keep that battle fresh.

  46. Jason Cordova “why would you complain about someone trying to expand that part of the hobby” Well, without knowing who is complaining I can only guess, but there are some in the OSR community who have proclaimed themselves as leaders/saviors/prophets of the OSR, and any other voice that speaks – especially if that voice does not follow their party line – diminshes them.

    Then some folks dislike other folks for political or social issues, and would attack them or anyone associated to them just to keep that battle fresh.

  47. Steven Warble I think that’s exactly right. And probably why my attempts to open up the conversation and build helpful bridges between RPG communities is a Pollyanna-ish effort at best.

  48. Steven Warble I think that’s exactly right. And probably why my attempts to open up the conversation and build helpful bridges between RPG communities is a Pollyanna-ish effort at best.

  49. It’s completely worth it Jason Cordova! I think Sophia Brandt has been doing an excellent job of bridging that gap for a long time now. There is so much to be shared and enjoyed. Let’s not allow some troll under our bridge to keep us from crossing!

  50. It’s completely worth it Jason Cordova! I think Sophia Brandt has been doing an excellent job of bridging that gap for a long time now. There is so much to be shared and enjoyed. Let’s not allow some troll under our bridge to keep us from crossing!

  57. I’m not sure what is going on but you can enjoy both narrative games/story games and OSR. But mean people are mean people. Sorry to hear that you get flak.

  58. I’m not sure what is going on but you can enjoy both narrative games/story games and OSR. But mean people are mean people. Sorry to hear that you get flak.

  59. Saw it. Funny that I put in the first comment and wasn’t aware of the follow up. Anyway, I said this: “can I point out that The Gauntlet may be the single, strongest voice for inclusivity in the whole gaming scene? They do as much or more to promote LBGTA concerns in gaming than any other podcasts, blogs, cons, etc. that I consume. That has to count for something too.”

  60. Saw it. Funny that I put in the first comment and wasn’t aware of the follow up. Anyway, I said this: “can I point out that The Gauntlet may be the single, strongest voice for inclusivity in the whole gaming scene? They do as much or more to promote LBGTA concerns in gaming than any other podcasts, blogs, cons, etc. that I consume. That has to count for something too.”

  61. My general strategy is combat negativity with positivity. Going head to head (neg to neg) just devolves into stupid “show me” and “prove it” and “don’t care” kind of arguments.

  62. My general strategy is combat negativity with positivity. Going head to head (neg to neg) just devolves into stupid “show me” and “prove it” and “don’t care” kind of arguments.

  63. I have always tried to stay out of this kind of thing, but I have to say that “come after you” seems like hyperbole. They’re expressing their opinions, in comments of a post outside of the TG community. That makes the statement in the OP here feel like escalation. Apologies if I’m wrong about that.

    As an aside, I’m fairly certain the second half of the text of the OP in question is facetious, especially given the first half and the poster’s further comments.

    Looking forward to listening to the episode. Is it going up on iTunes?

  64. I have always tried to stay out of this kind of thing, but I have to say that “come after you” seems like hyperbole. They’re expressing their opinions, in comments of a post outside of the TG community. That makes the statement in the OP here feel like escalation. Apologies if I’m wrong about that.

    As an aside, I’m fairly certain the second half of the text of the OP in question is facetious, especially given the first half and the poster’s further comments.

    Looking forward to listening to the episode. Is it going up on iTunes?

  65. David Perry Are they threatening us with physical violence? Obviously not. Are they chasing down these threads and trying to take a dump on the Gauntlet wherever they can? Yes. There can be a spectrum of things that qualify as “coming after” someone. It doesn’t make it any less frustrating.

  66. David Perry Are they threatening us with physical violence? Obviously not. Are they chasing down these threads and trying to take a dump on the Gauntlet wherever they can? Yes. There can be a spectrum of things that qualify as “coming after” someone. It doesn’t make it any less frustrating.

  67. David PerryAlso, it would be escalation if I myself was participating in any of these threads or otherwise getting involved. This post is closed to re-shares and is meant completely as a venting exercise within my own community.

  68. David PerryAlso, it would be escalation if I myself was participating in any of these threads or otherwise getting involved. This post is closed to re-shares and is meant completely as a venting exercise within my own community.

  69. When assholes speak loudly against a target the audience falls into three camps. Those who listen and agree, those who listen and see through, those who are confused. When/if such things target me, I only worry about the third group. The first group I am better off without. The second group reached their enlightenment without my help (or rather by comparing my conduct to the assholes and/or testing the asshole’s statements against their own experience). The third group is just having a straight up bad experience and I feel sorry for them. Which is, again, why I try to offer a positive thought that contrasts without ‘arguing.’ This gives those who like positivity a rallying flag of some kind.

  70. When assholes speak loudly against a target the audience falls into three camps. Those who listen and agree, those who listen and see through, those who are confused. When/if such things target me, I only worry about the third group. The first group I am better off without. The second group reached their enlightenment without my help (or rather by comparing my conduct to the assholes and/or testing the asshole’s statements against their own experience). The third group is just having a straight up bad experience and I feel sorry for them. Which is, again, why I try to offer a positive thought that contrasts without ‘arguing.’ This gives those who like positivity a rallying flag of some kind.

  71. It also infuriates me that when these assholes employ this kind of tactic, it’s silencing. Jason rightly won’t get involved in these discussions because it’s enervating and pointless, but it’s also demeaning to be forced to be quiet when someone else is shittalking you. So you either suffer in silence, or risk being seen as part of the problem by responding. It’s rotten.

  72. It also infuriates me that when these assholes employ this kind of tactic, it’s silencing. Jason rightly won’t get involved in these discussions because it’s enervating and pointless, but it’s also demeaning to be forced to be quiet when someone else is shittalking you. So you either suffer in silence, or risk being seen as part of the problem by responding. It’s rotten.

  75. I’m lucky I have a good support network. Stuff like today is frustrating but will pass. The folks you have to really be worried about are the ones with no platform who get driven out of the hobby because of harassment.

  76. I’m lucky I have a good support network. Stuff like today is frustrating but will pass. The folks you have to really be worried about are the ones with no platform who get driven out of the hobby because of harassment.

  79. Steven Warble Eric Nieudan’s stream is the one with the most activity. Note: I realize Eric’s post was being facetious/wink-wink (he follows our shows).

  80. Steven Warble Eric Nieudan’s stream is the one with the most activity. Note: I realize Eric’s post was being facetious/wink-wink (he follows our shows).

  81. FYI, I deleted my comment because I got an answer and I didn;t want to promote the argument by having more people post links. I must say I was expecting a different OSR’er to lead the charge.

  82. FYI, I deleted my comment because I got an answer and I didn;t want to promote the argument by having more people post links. I must say I was expecting a different OSR’er to lead the charge.

  83. I guess I stepped in it. My “asshole” comment above was probably an unfortunate word choice. I should have said rabble rouser?

  84. I guess I stepped in it. My “asshole” comment above was probably an unfortunate word choice. I should have said rabble rouser?

  89. Jason Cordova​. I know that you posted past week about feeling disconnected from the community. You just started a new project and it found some criticism, but please don’t let this deter you from continuing.

    Don’t do it for yeasty grognards or even your gaunlet fam, just do it for you and you can’t go wrong.

  90. Jason Cordova​. I know that you posted past week about feeling disconnected from the community. You just started a new project and it found some criticism, but please don’t let this deter you from continuing.

    Don’t do it for yeasty grognards or even your gaunlet fam, just do it for you and you can’t go wrong.

  91. I’m glad I hunted that one down. I see now that it’s nothing but an extremely bitter person turning anything they can into an opportunity to cut and paste everything they’ve collected against their personal adversaries into a comment field.

    The idea that the Gauntlet has been doing harm is completely laughable. This is by far the kindest and most inclusive community I know.

  92. I’m glad I hunted that one down. I see now that it’s nothing but an extremely bitter person turning anything they can into an opportunity to cut and paste everything they’ve collected against their personal adversaries into a comment field.

    The idea that the Gauntlet has been doing harm is completely laughable. This is by far the kindest and most inclusive community I know.

  93. That’s how his silencing trap works, Ray. It’s a shame, but I get it.

    My consolation is how clearly unhinged he is about this. He can’t brook the smallest disagreement.

  94. That’s how his silencing trap works, Ray. It’s a shame, but I get it.

    My consolation is how clearly unhinged he is about this. He can’t brook the smallest disagreement.

  109. I’m curious to see who it is, since I came to g+ 5ish years ago via diy D&D blogs. Also, I’d like to point out that Pre-GenCon is the typical time for the summer quarterly melt down…a regular g+ event since at least 2012 if I recall correctly.

  110. I’m curious to see who it is, since I came to g+ 5ish years ago via diy D&D blogs. Also, I’d like to point out that Pre-GenCon is the typical time for the summer quarterly melt down…a regular g+ event since at least 2012 if I recall correctly.

  111. As I posted over there, when Zak shows up the only allowable conversation is the one Zak wants to have. Better to just move on.

    Jason, let it move past you like a river.

  112. As I posted over there, when Zak shows up the only allowable conversation is the one Zak wants to have. Better to just move on.

    Jason, let it move past you like a river.

  115. I mean, honestly, this is probably the best thing that could have happened to our fledgling podcast in terms of putting it on people’s radar. Doesn’t make the situation any less frustrating.

  116. I mean, honestly, this is probably the best thing that could have happened to our fledgling podcast in terms of putting it on people’s radar. Doesn’t make the situation any less frustrating.

  117. Gotta say, I totally dug Judd Karlman’s New Yorker way of handling it. Makes me wish I grew up there. The left coast has made me soft. 😀

  118. Gotta say, I totally dug Judd Karlman’s New Yorker way of handling it. Makes me wish I grew up there. The left coast has made me soft. 😀

  125. It’s interesting that the Gauntlet is forever tainted because we’ve had Rob and Anna on a couple of times (out of 300+ podcast episodes we have produced across the whole family of casts), but we get no credit for featuring his work on the shows, even when doing so has caused his enemies to give us the side eye. I’m not saying that’s a justification or defense of anything, but I find it funny how inconsistent/unforgiving his logic is.

  126. It’s interesting that the Gauntlet is forever tainted because we’ve had Rob and Anna on a couple of times (out of 300+ podcast episodes we have produced across the whole family of casts), but we get no credit for featuring his work on the shows, even when doing so has caused his enemies to give us the side eye. I’m not saying that’s a justification or defense of anything, but I find it funny how inconsistent/unforgiving his logic is.

  127. You’ve also had on Mark Diaz Truman on twice, haven’t you? He’s a person of color, right? (I mean, I don’t know about these things, but there are more colors than ‘black’ aren’t there?) Also, you had him on before Rob and Mark represents (for whatever reason) Zak’s side of that beef.

  128. You’ve also had on Mark Diaz Truman on twice, haven’t you? He’s a person of color, right? (I mean, I don’t know about these things, but there are more colors than ‘black’ aren’t there?) Also, you had him on before Rob and Mark represents (for whatever reason) Zak’s side of that beef.

  131. What on EARTH is there to justify or defend?! You (and all of the Gauntlet family of podcasts) have consistently presented game material you find interesting and useful. I can’t recall EVER hearing you play into any of the drama playing out elsewhere.

    As far as I’m concerned Jason Cordova, you are a paladin and champion of good. These very personal vendettas cannot taint you.

  132. What on EARTH is there to justify or defend?! You (and all of the Gauntlet family of podcasts) have consistently presented game material you find interesting and useful. I can’t recall EVER hearing you play into any of the drama playing out elsewhere.

    As far as I’m concerned Jason Cordova, you are a paladin and champion of good. These very personal vendettas cannot taint you.

  133. Ray Otus And I myself am a gay man of color! He doesn’t know what he is talking about with regard to our shows (I’d be shocked if he had listened to a single episode of any of them). Some of the stuff he’s referring to has been plucked from thin air. He also disregards the fact that podcasts are only a portion of what we do.

  134. Ray Otus And I myself am a gay man of color! He doesn’t know what he is talking about with regard to our shows (I’d be shocked if he had listened to a single episode of any of them). Some of the stuff he’s referring to has been plucked from thin air. He also disregards the fact that podcasts are only a portion of what we do.

  135. Please don’t waste time trying to figure out his logic. He is a hate-filled person looking for opportunities to be hateful. I have seen him lash out at the most inoffensive people I know for no reason.

  136. Please don’t waste time trying to figure out his logic. He is a hate-filled person looking for opportunities to be hateful. I have seen him lash out at the most inoffensive people I know for no reason.

  139. I’d never suggest ignoring him, Robert Bohl​ – that’s a tough ask. Blocking isn’t bad, though he does sort of disort the fabric of the Internet around him, so you can never entirely get away from it. (But look who I’m telling this to.)

  140. I’d never suggest ignoring him, Robert Bohl​ – that’s a tough ask. Blocking isn’t bad, though he does sort of disort the fabric of the Internet around him, so you can never entirely get away from it. (But look who I’m telling this to.)

  141. Logan Howard Zak seems to be a firm believer in guilt by association. If you have commented on a comment of someone he believes has done wrong, or god forbid “+1″ed such a comment you are as bad as the person that has done bad. And by conversing with such a person you are explicitly endorsing their wrong doing. It is a tiresome slippery slope of accusations. Best to walk away.

  142. Logan Howard Zak seems to be a firm believer in guilt by association. If you have commented on a comment of someone he believes has done wrong, or god forbid “+1″ed such a comment you are as bad as the person that has done bad. And by conversing with such a person you are explicitly endorsing their wrong doing. It is a tiresome slippery slope of accusations. Best to walk away.

  143. Also that argument over what you +1ed cedes to him that it already is a terrible thing that happened. It’s rhetorically dishonest and it works.

  144. Also that argument over what you +1ed cedes to him that it already is a terrible thing that happened. It’s rhetorically dishonest and it works.

  145. (Actually it was him telling me to explain myself for plussing something, and my telling him to fuck off, that started our special relationship.)

  146. (Actually it was him telling me to explain myself for plussing something, and my telling him to fuck off, that started our special relationship.)

  147. Zak is pretty clear about why he’s got beef with the people he has beefs with. People don’t need to guess if it’s about politics or not being on the show or whatever. He will literally tell anyone who will listen. (And did so on Eric’s thread about this new show.)

    I don’t think his feelings are illegitimate here. He has people trolling him all over the internet. People spread lies about him. That he’s sexist or transphobic or homophobic or whatever. So he gets upset when he sees people he thinks are suspect being presented in a way that normalizes them.

    He is abrasive. No doubt. I don’t think he does himself any favours with how he goes 0 to 100 with people. But he deals with things how he deals with things. There is literally a thread about him being the worst on RPGNet once a month—at least. Or someone talking about him on Twitter. Or whatever. I’m not in his shoes. I don’t know what he has to deal with. I don’t know how I would handle things in his situation.

    But, like I said in the other thread, I think your shows are excellent. I like that you guys are positive and showcase a big variety of stuff. I think his condemnation is hyperbolic.

    You can’t please everyone. Just wait for the Pundit to discover story game swine are doing an OSR podcast.

  148. Zak is pretty clear about why he’s got beef with the people he has beefs with. People don’t need to guess if it’s about politics or not being on the show or whatever. He will literally tell anyone who will listen. (And did so on Eric’s thread about this new show.)

    I don’t think his feelings are illegitimate here. He has people trolling him all over the internet. People spread lies about him. That he’s sexist or transphobic or homophobic or whatever. So he gets upset when he sees people he thinks are suspect being presented in a way that normalizes them.

    He is abrasive. No doubt. I don’t think he does himself any favours with how he goes 0 to 100 with people. But he deals with things how he deals with things. There is literally a thread about him being the worst on RPGNet once a month—at least. Or someone talking about him on Twitter. Or whatever. I’m not in his shoes. I don’t know what he has to deal with. I don’t know how I would handle things in his situation.

    But, like I said in the other thread, I think your shows are excellent. I like that you guys are positive and showcase a big variety of stuff. I think his condemnation is hyperbolic.

    You can’t please everyone. Just wait for the Pundit to discover story game swine are doing an OSR podcast.

  151. But Pundit would be more of a badge of honor thing for me, because I don’t give two shits about Pundit. The Zak stuff is somewhat more hurtful because I, personally, am a big booster of Zak’s work. Like, how can you treat someone who has been such big, vocal fan of your work so poorly?

  152. But Pundit would be more of a badge of honor thing for me, because I don’t give two shits about Pundit. The Zak stuff is somewhat more hurtful because I, personally, am a big booster of Zak’s work. Like, how can you treat someone who has been such big, vocal fan of your work so poorly?

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