Do you know what was the gateway game in your country?

Do you know what was the gateway game in your country?

Do you know what was the gateway game in your country? I mean gateway to the RPG as a whole – game that kickstarted and popularized the hobby (it doesn’t have to be first – it can be something that came later, but made RPGs popular and shaped the gaming landscape).

In US it’s obvious – D&D was probably the case for entire english speaking world too.

In Poland it was Warhammer.

I know about few countries already:

Germany Die Schwarze Auge

Sweden Drakar och Demoner (CoC/BRP inspired)

France D&D / Die Schwarze Auge

Japan Sword World

How it was in the rest of the world?

60 thoughts on “Do you know what was the gateway game in your country?”

  3. I didn’t play D&D till my twenties. For me and my friends, it was Fighting Fantasy, which was a massive phenomenon over here in the UK.

  4. I didn’t play D&D till my twenties. For me and my friends, it was Fighting Fantasy, which was a massive phenomenon over here in the UK.

  7. /sub

    Also, J. Walton​, Ben Lehman​, Ole Peder G.​, Joaquim Ball-llosera​, Juan Ochoa​, Moreno R.​, Remko van der Pluijm​

  8. /sub

    Also, J. Walton​, Ben Lehman​, Ole Peder G.​, Joaquim Ball-llosera​, Juan Ochoa​, Moreno R.​, Remko van der Pluijm​

  13. I can confirm “Das Schwarze Auge” (now available in English as “The Dark Eye”) for Germany. Everyone including myself started with this. But at least in my RPG circle, it had (perhaps unfairly?) an entry level reputation, and most gamers eventually “graduated” to other systems.

  14. I can confirm “Das Schwarze Auge” (now available in English as “The Dark Eye”) for Germany. Everyone including myself started with this. But at least in my RPG circle, it had (perhaps unfairly?) an entry level reputation, and most gamers eventually “graduated” to other systems.

  15. In Italy D&D (Basic, Mentzer’s Red Box) was published rather late, in 1985 I think. So there is a “before 1985” and an “after 1985”

    Before: there were a lot of groups playing, enough to have gaming magazines like Dragon available in gaming stores, but only in the biggest cities, or in universities. As far as I know in a city near here with 150.000 abitants there were at most an half dozen groups playing, not enough to have gaming stores or clubs. These things were only in the big cities (and I did encounter them when I went to college).

    The group where I began playing used manuals written in English, and it was founded in the 70s by an american barman who worked in the bar of the father of another player. When he did leave another guy took its place as the DM and I joined the group after that, in the 80s.

    The concept was known, but not commercially viable enough, I suppose. With a playing base so sparse it’s impossible to know what people did play, but I think AD&D and CoC mostly. There was a lot of groups playing Runequest in the city where I went to college (so I was able at the time to get photocopies of every single RQII book), but I think it was a local thing, I didn’t find any trace of people playing in the early 80s Runequest that were NOT from that city.

    When D&D Red Box was published in 1985, the number of people playing increased I think at least 100 times. It was published by the biggest boardgame publisher in Italy with ads in a lot of magazines. Most people who started with that box doesn’t have any idea that some people were playing before, I think.

    It was not enough, though. That publisher stopped publishing D&D because it did not sell enough. Other publishers tried, afterwards. Most of the time, failing.

    Some other publisher could survive publishing other, much less known games, because they did pay a lot less for the publishing rights and it was often more of an hobby that a commercial venture. But the usual print runs are really tiny.

    These days, most people still doesn’t know that there are rpgs played without a console or a computer. It’s even difficult to explain the concept.

    So… for the answers:

    “the game popularized the hobby”. None. It’s still not popular (or maybe World of Warcraft if you count CRPG)

    “game that shaped the hobby”: tiny as it is, it was shaped, sadly, by D&D. With all the problems that it brings.

  16. In Italy D&D (Basic, Mentzer’s Red Box) was published rather late, in 1985 I think. So there is a “before 1985” and an “after 1985”

    Before: there were a lot of groups playing, enough to have gaming magazines like Dragon available in gaming stores, but only in the biggest cities, or in universities. As far as I know in a city near here with 150.000 abitants there were at most an half dozen groups playing, not enough to have gaming stores or clubs. These things were only in the big cities (and I did encounter them when I went to college).

    The group where I began playing used manuals written in English, and it was founded in the 70s by an american barman who worked in the bar of the father of another player. When he did leave another guy took its place as the DM and I joined the group after that, in the 80s.

    The concept was known, but not commercially viable enough, I suppose. With a playing base so sparse it’s impossible to know what people did play, but I think AD&D and CoC mostly. There was a lot of groups playing Runequest in the city where I went to college (so I was able at the time to get photocopies of every single RQII book), but I think it was a local thing, I didn’t find any trace of people playing in the early 80s Runequest that were NOT from that city.

    When D&D Red Box was published in 1985, the number of people playing increased I think at least 100 times. It was published by the biggest boardgame publisher in Italy with ads in a lot of magazines. Most people who started with that box doesn’t have any idea that some people were playing before, I think.

    It was not enough, though. That publisher stopped publishing D&D because it did not sell enough. Other publishers tried, afterwards. Most of the time, failing.

    Some other publisher could survive publishing other, much less known games, because they did pay a lot less for the publishing rights and it was often more of an hobby that a commercial venture. But the usual print runs are really tiny.

    These days, most people still doesn’t know that there are rpgs played without a console or a computer. It’s even difficult to explain the concept.

    So… for the answers:

    “the game popularized the hobby”. None. It’s still not popular (or maybe World of Warcraft if you count CRPG)

    “game that shaped the hobby”: tiny as it is, it was shaped, sadly, by D&D. With all the problems that it brings.

  17. Fighting Fantasy and the “livre dont vous êtes le héros” gamebook got a lot of the french speaking quebecers I know into RPG because they were readily available in public libraries here.

  18. Fighting Fantasy and the “livre dont vous êtes le héros” gamebook got a lot of the french speaking quebecers I know into RPG because they were readily available in public libraries here.

  23. In the US too, but Rifts was actually the first RPG I ever played. After that it was D&D, and then WoD (werewolf and vampire, in which order I don’t remember, and a few other ones after that). But yeah, for most folks here, the first RPG they play is still D&D (or PF, which, is really just D&D anyways).

  24. In the US too, but Rifts was actually the first RPG I ever played. After that it was D&D, and then WoD (werewolf and vampire, in which order I don’t remember, and a few other ones after that). But yeah, for most folks here, the first RPG they play is still D&D (or PF, which, is really just D&D anyways).

  25. Chris Shorb I think there’s something to be said about the pocket book format and fact that you could play those books by yourself or with others that made them easy to grok for young minds everywhere.

  26. Chris Shorb I think there’s something to be said about the pocket book format and fact that you could play those books by yourself or with others that made them easy to grok for young minds everywhere.

  27. I can confirm what Vincent Quigley​ said. I’ve met a lot of people who started with gamebooks. Of course D&D played a huge role in popularizing the hobby, as did Pathfinder for some of the younger audience. Both are easy to find both in english and french, which helps a lot in Quebec.

  28. I can confirm what Vincent Quigley​ said. I’ve met a lot of people who started with gamebooks. Of course D&D played a huge role in popularizing the hobby, as did Pathfinder for some of the younger audience. Both are easy to find both in english and french, which helps a lot in Quebec.

  29. The Fighting Fantasy books were a huge factor in France too. You may already know that, Maciej Starzycki​, but the French version of Das Schwarze Auge was first released by the same (very mainstream) publisher. It was everywhere.

  30. The Fighting Fantasy books were a huge factor in France too. You may already know that, Maciej Starzycki​, but the French version of Das Schwarze Auge was first released by the same (very mainstream) publisher. It was everywhere.

  31. In the Netherlands, it was either D&D or ODM (Oog des Meesters, dutch version of Das Schwarze Auge), although the fourth edition of DSA hasn’t been translated into Dutch anymore (probably related to the popularity of D&D and the English version of DSA). Furthermore, I know if a number of groups who had other D20 games (notably based on franchises such as Star Wars or Warcraft) as their gateway.

  32. In the Netherlands, it was either D&D or ODM (Oog des Meesters, dutch version of Das Schwarze Auge), although the fourth edition of DSA hasn’t been translated into Dutch anymore (probably related to the popularity of D&D and the English version of DSA). Furthermore, I know if a number of groups who had other D20 games (notably based on franchises such as Star Wars or Warcraft) as their gateway.

  35. Here in Brazil Adnd, Vampire and GURPS were the most important ones, during a time in which it was incredibly hard to get a copy of any of those. People would then make photocopies of the books, which led to what we now call the “Xerox generation”. There were almost no stores that sold any RPG at all, and our economy was terrible back then.

    Those books were also the first ones to be translated, I guess.

    We still have reminiscent GURPS and Vampire scenes due to that era, despite the fact that those systems don’t get much attention internationally anymore. Most Brazilian roleplayers, almost all of them, play exclusively those games or some (local or foreign) variation of them. Most groups would stick to one or just a few systems/games until a couple of years ago, when our indie scene finally blossomed.

  36. Here in Brazil Adnd, Vampire and GURPS were the most important ones, during a time in which it was incredibly hard to get a copy of any of those. People would then make photocopies of the books, which led to what we now call the “Xerox generation”. There were almost no stores that sold any RPG at all, and our economy was terrible back then.

    Those books were also the first ones to be translated, I guess.

    We still have reminiscent GURPS and Vampire scenes due to that era, despite the fact that those systems don’t get much attention internationally anymore. Most Brazilian roleplayers, almost all of them, play exclusively those games or some (local or foreign) variation of them. Most groups would stick to one or just a few systems/games until a couple of years ago, when our indie scene finally blossomed.

  37. André Bogaz e Souza that’s fascinating! Could you write a bit more about history? What games came next, how GURPS & Vampire being first influenced type of games being designed in Brazil?

  38. André Bogaz e Souza that’s fascinating! Could you write a bit more about history? What games came next, how GURPS & Vampire being first influenced type of games being designed in Brazil?

  45. Guy Shalev writes: “I can’t reply there, so feel free to pass along, in Israel it was Dungeons and Dragons. I actually wrote a school paper about it back in elementary school 😀 It was brought over by two people whose father brought them books of the game while they were teenagers, and when they got older (still in the 80s), they started importing and translating it themselves. The first Israeli RPG convention was a DnD convention, basically.”

  46. Guy Shalev writes: “I can’t reply there, so feel free to pass along, in Israel it was Dungeons and Dragons. I actually wrote a school paper about it back in elementary school 😀 It was brought over by two people whose father brought them books of the game while they were teenagers, and when they got older (still in the 80s), they started importing and translating it themselves. The first Israeli RPG convention was a DnD convention, basically.”

  49. Haakon Olav Thunestvedt: “The red and blue box of BEMCI D&D was translated into Norwegian in the mid ’80s and was the gateway for at least my generation of players. The Norwegian edition of Drakar och Demoner was also a gateway to some.”

  50. Haakon Olav Thunestvedt: “The red and blue box of BEMCI D&D was translated into Norwegian in the mid ’80s and was the gateway for at least my generation of players. The Norwegian edition of Drakar och Demoner was also a gateway to some.”

  51. In the UK it was D&D, going all the way back to OD&D. It’s held fast too, despite the inroads by WoD and, latterly, Pathfinder. The interesting thing for me is that while the indie scene exploded here in the 00s just as it did in North America and Finndinavia, D&D carried merrily on on a parallel track as if games like Fiasco and DitV had never existed. We’re only now seeing innovation in trad gaming via the OSR, combined with the rise in POD and self-publishing.

  52. In the UK it was D&D, going all the way back to OD&D. It’s held fast too, despite the inroads by WoD and, latterly, Pathfinder. The interesting thing for me is that while the indie scene exploded here in the 00s just as it did in North America and Finndinavia, D&D carried merrily on on a parallel track as if games like Fiasco and DitV had never existed. We’re only now seeing innovation in trad gaming via the OSR, combined with the rise in POD and self-publishing.

  53. Whilst I agree with catty _big​​ that D&D started the UK RPG scene, it’s important not to forget the influence of Games Workshop’s magazine White Dwarf in its pre- Warhammer incarnation. At that time Games Workshop printed a lot of US products under licence and those they printed got a big lift from regular columns in WD: Traveller, Runequest and Call of Cthulhu spring to mind as particular beneficiaries and were all very big in the UK. That diversity died a little when GW got into Warhammer, ending WD as a voice for other games.

  54. Whilst I agree with catty _big​​ that D&D started the UK RPG scene, it’s important not to forget the influence of Games Workshop’s magazine White Dwarf in its pre- Warhammer incarnation. At that time Games Workshop printed a lot of US products under licence and those they printed got a big lift from regular columns in WD: Traveller, Runequest and Call of Cthulhu spring to mind as particular beneficiaries and were all very big in the UK. That diversity died a little when GW got into Warhammer, ending WD as a voice for other games.

  55. Maciej Starzycki sure!

    The first RPGs made in Brazil that I know of were usually thematically similar to either AD&D (games like Tagmar, RPG Quest, Mighty Blade – most of which have recent new editions) or Vampire (such as Arkanum and Trevas – which are kind of forgotten nowadays), though mechanically they could be more or less inspired by either of those, or by the free-form, highly mathematical style of GURPS. The influence of Vampire in mechanical terms has always been quite small; most Brazilian RPGs prefer either systems in which you either must roll under a certain number (like AD&D and GURPS) or roll and add to that in order to hit or surpass a target number (like D&D 3ed).

    Back then, the only (sort of) big RPG publisher in Brazil would only publish translations of american games, with only one exception: a series of some two or three GURPS modules set in Brazillian historical past. Those are very well remembered and kept as relics by collectors, but I think they are not very good – to me they seem to present a somewhat nationalistic and possibly racist view of our past, but I don’t know for sure since I’ve never read nor played them.

    In the late 90’s and early 2000’s we had a local RPG magazine that used to publish a lot of (A)D&D, GURPS and Vampire material. They were responsible for launching or popularizing most of the local RPGs in that time. They had their own D&D setting, called Tormenta, which with the OGL grew to become a new d20 game. This became the biggest, best selling local RPG, and their publisher became the most successful one until a couple of years ago. Most of their stuff was anime/manga-influenced, including Tormenta, which is basically an anime take on the regular D&D setting. Anime is huge in the whole geek scene in Brazil, though it looks to be losing space in recent years (my girlfriend disagrees, she points that the anime scene is still as big, it’s just that we now are older and don’t get much in contact with that anymore, which could be true).

    Those same folks made another very popular game, called 3d&t, which was a point-buy, extremely simplified system using only the d6 that sort of resembled GURPS. Though people liked it a lot and it even got a new edition recently, after a long time, it’s not a very good game at all. It’s also heavily influenced by anime – in fact, the “t” in it’s name stands for Tokyo.

    Nowadays, the RPG scene in Brazil is better than ever. Many games that would usually never see a Brazilian edition are being translated and published via crowdfunding. The indie and OSR scene here pretty much walk hand-in-hand, and for the last few years they have been breathing a lot more life than the trad scene. The same guys who published Old Dragon, the major Brazilian OSR game, are the ones who brought Lady Blackbird, Dust Devils and Blood & Honor. Those people have built a very interesting community around them, different from the bigger publishers of other times, who pretty much didn’t give a crap about their consumers.

    That’s it. I hope I haven’t bored you too much. Hahaha

    Thanks for the interest!

  56. Maciej Starzycki sure!

    The first RPGs made in Brazil that I know of were usually thematically similar to either AD&D (games like Tagmar, RPG Quest, Mighty Blade – most of which have recent new editions) or Vampire (such as Arkanum and Trevas – which are kind of forgotten nowadays), though mechanically they could be more or less inspired by either of those, or by the free-form, highly mathematical style of GURPS. The influence of Vampire in mechanical terms has always been quite small; most Brazilian RPGs prefer either systems in which you either must roll under a certain number (like AD&D and GURPS) or roll and add to that in order to hit or surpass a target number (like D&D 3ed).

    Back then, the only (sort of) big RPG publisher in Brazil would only publish translations of american games, with only one exception: a series of some two or three GURPS modules set in Brazillian historical past. Those are very well remembered and kept as relics by collectors, but I think they are not very good – to me they seem to present a somewhat nationalistic and possibly racist view of our past, but I don’t know for sure since I’ve never read nor played them.

    In the late 90’s and early 2000’s we had a local RPG magazine that used to publish a lot of (A)D&D, GURPS and Vampire material. They were responsible for launching or popularizing most of the local RPGs in that time. They had their own D&D setting, called Tormenta, which with the OGL grew to become a new d20 game. This became the biggest, best selling local RPG, and their publisher became the most successful one until a couple of years ago. Most of their stuff was anime/manga-influenced, including Tormenta, which is basically an anime take on the regular D&D setting. Anime is huge in the whole geek scene in Brazil, though it looks to be losing space in recent years (my girlfriend disagrees, she points that the anime scene is still as big, it’s just that we now are older and don’t get much in contact with that anymore, which could be true).

    Those same folks made another very popular game, called 3d&t, which was a point-buy, extremely simplified system using only the d6 that sort of resembled GURPS. Though people liked it a lot and it even got a new edition recently, after a long time, it’s not a very good game at all. It’s also heavily influenced by anime – in fact, the “t” in it’s name stands for Tokyo.

    Nowadays, the RPG scene in Brazil is better than ever. Many games that would usually never see a Brazilian edition are being translated and published via crowdfunding. The indie and OSR scene here pretty much walk hand-in-hand, and for the last few years they have been breathing a lot more life than the trad scene. The same guys who published Old Dragon, the major Brazilian OSR game, are the ones who brought Lady Blackbird, Dust Devils and Blood & Honor. Those people have built a very interesting community around them, different from the bigger publishers of other times, who pretty much didn’t give a crap about their consumers.

    That’s it. I hope I haven’t bored you too much. Hahaha

    Thanks for the interest!

  57. catty _big For me, and everyone I’ve gamed with from the UK it’s been Warhammer over D&D. Might be different for young people though.

  58. catty _big For me, and everyone I’ve gamed with from the UK it’s been Warhammer over D&D. Might be different for young people though.

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