Sudden character details and talent reveals.

Sudden character details and talent reveals.

Sudden character details and talent reveals.

I have talked before about asking players questions to get them to volunteer for a scene or add details. For instance: Do any of you happen to speak the old languages of the elves? Who looks like the biggest threat? Have you had any run-ins with the local law before?

Sometimes there is a lot of hesitation on the players part and I have to assure them that I am prepared to continue regardless of their answer. Maybe no one can speak to the elf, or everyone can. Maybe I change the question to who looks weakest or the attackers target everyone equally. Maybe there is no true law enforcement here or an outside bounty hunter has tracked you down. When I ask the players these questions I am mostly looking to get them more involved with the story making process and help it move along smoothly.

Today I want to talk about players volunteering character details and talents. I’ve thought about this in the past but I recently listened to Ray Otus podcast, Plunder Grounds (one word?), where he mentioned a situation where a character who wasn’t a bard and had not previously described themselves as having musical talent should auto-fail an attempt to play the piano (or maybe to play it impressively). I highly recommend the podcast and might be misunderstanding (I am not trying to call anyone out and don’t believe in any ONE TRUE WAY to RPG) but I have to differ slightly with that idea. I would probably find it delightful if my barbarian player, Kurg the skull smasher, suddenly revealed a talent for song. Who is to say that the thief hasn’t had dealings with all sorts of unlikely customers and speaks fluent drow. I want to learn more about their stories, especially the unlikely and unexpected bits. I generally don’t approve of anything but the briefest prepared backstories at character generation, but I think reveals like this are great places to explore the characters more and mesh them with the setting.

To be clear, a reveal like this should always lead to questions. (Where did you learn that? How come it’s never come up before? Is there anything else you’ve been hiding?) Also it should probably not be contrary to already established details. (I thought you said you were raised by elves, how are you also raised by dwarves?) But that’s not to say characters cant lie about their past, or offer an explanation for a truly unlikely reveal. Also I am not opposed to occasionally retconning, especially if the original story has not come up yet in an interesting way. The players will still have the mechanical opportunity to roll and fail so I am not overly concerned about abuse of this power. And there are some obvious limits. (did i mention that my character is also a level 20 wizard because I went to Hogwarts one summer, or that I am 30 ft tall, was dipped in the pool of invulnerability as a child and also the world’s most famous brain surgeon?) Generally I would much rather assume they have the means to engage the story rather than not. And finally, it’s just fun to find out more details about the players.

What do you think? Is it giving the players to much power? Or asking for abuse? Is it unrealistic or game breaking? Am I only focusing on good examples? Have you ever been surprised / delighted / upset by such a reveal

22 thoughts on “Sudden character details and talent reveals.”

  5. I love stuff like this! And I think a lot of it is born of mutual trust.

    When I ask players these questions, and when I allow that space for weird, creative stuff to bloom, it leads to a really vibrant back-and-forth that gets players invested in their characters and thinking about them. What’s really powerful is the ability of all those little details to create a fuller image of the character that’s more rounded and interesting.

    In my experience, it takes time to build that. Asking them questions about things in their fields of expertise is a good way to start; in my Masks group, there’s some wonderfully clear-cut arenas for characters, for instance. The Outsider is who I turn to when I have questions about their alien species, and often about other aliens; the Doomed (who is a werewolf) is who I turn to when I have questions about how werewolves work in this setting; I’ll sometimes ask the Janus about more mundane elements of the setting. I think that’s a good way to acclimate players to the idea that they can speak with authority, because you’re giving them questions about things that are absolutely within their authority, but that traditionally fell under the purview of a DM.

  6. I love stuff like this! And I think a lot of it is born of mutual trust.

    When I ask players these questions, and when I allow that space for weird, creative stuff to bloom, it leads to a really vibrant back-and-forth that gets players invested in their characters and thinking about them. What’s really powerful is the ability of all those little details to create a fuller image of the character that’s more rounded and interesting.

    In my experience, it takes time to build that. Asking them questions about things in their fields of expertise is a good way to start; in my Masks group, there’s some wonderfully clear-cut arenas for characters, for instance. The Outsider is who I turn to when I have questions about their alien species, and often about other aliens; the Doomed (who is a werewolf) is who I turn to when I have questions about how werewolves work in this setting; I’ll sometimes ask the Janus about more mundane elements of the setting. I think that’s a good way to acclimate players to the idea that they can speak with authority, because you’re giving them questions about things that are absolutely within their authority, but that traditionally fell under the purview of a DM.

  7. Logan Howard I thought at first you were saying you also hated my voice…

    Andy Hauge I would just add that you should also be open to the players taking other areas of authority not obviously drawn from their character sheet or initial backstory. of course not all players will be eager or willing but its something to encourage.

  8. Logan Howard I thought at first you were saying you also hated my voice…

    Andy Hauge I would just add that you should also be open to the players taking other areas of authority not obviously drawn from their character sheet or initial backstory. of course not all players will be eager or willing but its something to encourage.

  11. “I would probably find it delightful if my barbarian player, Kurg the skull smasher, suddenly revealed a talent for song.” I love it. LOL.

    Yes. I often let people reveal things through questions. OTOH if a player initiates trying something and doesn’t lay any groundwork at all in the fiction … I may just make a move and say yeah, you fail.

    I should say that my podcast isn’t specifically about Dungeon World. But I don’t know if I would react differently even in DW.

    Here’s how I see it. If player A said “Kurg walks up to piano. As a half-orc who grew up with a human mother he fondly remembers watching her hands as she played his favorite melodies. In the moment, he feels like maybe he can pull this off, if he can just imagine her hands…” As the GM I might just say “FUCK YEAH, you do it! Tell me about it.” Or I might say “Yes, you get started and it’s … it’s actually working! You are playing. And then you become aware of the fact that you are playing a piano! You are doing it! And you kind of freak out. Roll+INT to concentrate on your memories and shrug off any doubts!”

    OTOH, if player A said “Krug walks up to the piano and tries to fake it.” I’d probably (probably) say, “Yeah, that goes as horribly as you would expect.”

    I suppose I MIGHT say, “do you want to roll to see how it goes? What in your background makes you think you can pull this off?”

  12. “I would probably find it delightful if my barbarian player, Kurg the skull smasher, suddenly revealed a talent for song.” I love it. LOL.

    Yes. I often let people reveal things through questions. OTOH if a player initiates trying something and doesn’t lay any groundwork at all in the fiction … I may just make a move and say yeah, you fail.

    I should say that my podcast isn’t specifically about Dungeon World. But I don’t know if I would react differently even in DW.

    Here’s how I see it. If player A said “Kurg walks up to piano. As a half-orc who grew up with a human mother he fondly remembers watching her hands as she played his favorite melodies. In the moment, he feels like maybe he can pull this off, if he can just imagine her hands…” As the GM I might just say “FUCK YEAH, you do it! Tell me about it.” Or I might say “Yes, you get started and it’s … it’s actually working! You are playing. And then you become aware of the fact that you are playing a piano! You are doing it! And you kind of freak out. Roll+INT to concentrate on your memories and shrug off any doubts!”

    OTOH, if player A said “Krug walks up to the piano and tries to fake it.” I’d probably (probably) say, “Yeah, that goes as horribly as you would expect.”

    I suppose I MIGHT say, “do you want to roll to see how it goes? What in your background makes you think you can pull this off?”

  13. Ray Otus and Daniel Fowler There’s also the issue of niche protection. If I have another player in the game who specifically created a character with the desire to be the one who was good at that thing, I would be much more likely to limit the success of the PC who randomly decided they were good at it.

  14. Ray Otus and Daniel Fowler There’s also the issue of niche protection. If I have another player in the game who specifically created a character with the desire to be the one who was good at that thing, I would be much more likely to limit the success of the PC who randomly decided they were good at it.

  17. Daniel Fowler I like the questions at your table. Also, that it is fine to just move on if nothing comes to mind. I felt it was really flavor more than affecting actual outcomes.

  18. Daniel Fowler I like the questions at your table. Also, that it is fine to just move on if nothing comes to mind. I felt it was really flavor more than affecting actual outcomes.

  19. Logan Howard I would definitely try to avoid players stepping on other players toes. who should play the piano, probably the bard. but if the barbarian is forced onto the stage they might reveal a talent, maybe not the piano, but a surprisingly rousing song. the bard should definitely be involved in the discussion. are they impressed or not? do they want to preform together? for certain, the bard is the expert and the only one who can use his performance mechanical for magic.

    Ray Otus good points. I might say that characters who state that they don’t have the talent (which can also be super interesting) and trying to fake it might be doing something else. maybe they describe playing really awfully then trying to play it off as part of the performance. “That is how we do it in the french court, don’t you know?” and also I expect this will be my last major G+ post.

    parrish warren Thanks

  20. Logan Howard I would definitely try to avoid players stepping on other players toes. who should play the piano, probably the bard. but if the barbarian is forced onto the stage they might reveal a talent, maybe not the piano, but a surprisingly rousing song. the bard should definitely be involved in the discussion. are they impressed or not? do they want to preform together? for certain, the bard is the expert and the only one who can use his performance mechanical for magic.

    Ray Otus good points. I might say that characters who state that they don’t have the talent (which can also be super interesting) and trying to fake it might be doing something else. maybe they describe playing really awfully then trying to play it off as part of the performance. “That is how we do it in the french court, don’t you know?” and also I expect this will be my last major G+ post.

    parrish warren Thanks

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