The More Seats at the Table newsletter that highlights marginalized game creators that is flying around right now is super-interesting. They have a very particular definition of marginalized, but that’s their prerogative; overall, it seems like a nice project, and the people involved are good people.
Here is my issue with it: a lot of people with the market power to actually hire marginalized game creators are going to throw a dollar at this and then call it good. And you fucking know that is what’s going to happen.
One of the things I find insanely frustrating about the hobby, and I’ll just stick to the indie side of things for now since that is my particular area of knowledge, is how there is a whole lot of talking but not a lot of doing when it comes to diversity issues (and then those of us who are doing the doing get cred-checked into oblivion, but that’s a separate obnoxious discussion).
One of the ways I have seen this newsletter framed (by Jason Morningstar and others) is that it’s a failure of the market on the consumer side that the work of people from marginalized communities doesn’t get the kind of traction it should, and that if only there was a way to get the word out about these games, then everything would be better. That’s… partially right. Except here’s the thing: I spend more time than you can possibly imagine trying to elevate and promote niche work from game designers, many from marginalized communities, that might not otherwise get much notice. It makes some difference on the margins, but ultimately, I’m not changing anyone’s life. Do you know why? Because in this hobby, consumers look to the publishing imprints they recognize to know what to buy and what to skip over.
(This is actually part and parcel with another thing that bugs me and that I have complained about before: the people who have the most to protect when it comes to their business are always the first ones to publicly de-emphasize the need to present your work in a polished, professional manner; they encourage a loose, informal approach to design and publishing that they would never, ever, practice themselves.)
More Seats at the Table is a lovely idea, but the only way this change happens is if people with actual project budgets begin putting their money where their mouth is.
And so what to do about this, vis-a-vis the Gauntlet? Because this has to be more than just me complaining, right? Here is my thinking: we presently exist in a very interesting space. We possess both the power to hire game creators from marginalized communities through Codex (and we do, meager though our budget may be) as well as talk about the people who aren’t hiring people from those communities through the podcasts. I may start sending out some questionnaires to be sure I’ve got a really good handle on how much of a problem this really is. I am willing to accept that my instincts about this situation might be totally wrong, but I won’t know for sure until I start researching it. If anyone wants to help with this little project, I would greatly appreciate it.
We are concentrating on marginalization of gender, but with an intersectional lens.
Of note: while our focus is on promoting folks with marginalized genders, we want to explicitly encourage the submission of games whose authors are from other marginalized communities, such as PoC, queer and disabled creators, in addition to having a marginalized gender.
We are concentrating on marginalization of gender, but with an intersectional lens.
Of note: while our focus is on promoting folks with marginalized genders, we want to explicitly encourage the submission of games whose authors are from other marginalized communities, such as PoC, queer and disabled creators, in addition to having a marginalized gender.
Hey Jason. This is all really good commentary and mostly I am commenting as a placeholder to come back and be more expansive when I am not COMPLETELY swamped, but in the mean time, in no particular order:
* I don’t believe in cookies, but I have always been super impressed with how Jason Morningstar and Bully Pulpit operate. Star Crossed is a super exciting example of them throwing their brand behind an awesome game that would have been overlooked as being “for girls” probably. (I speak as the author of another romance game “for girls”.)
* Absolutely, the current publishing model of “bolt on diversity through stretch goals” is crappy and needs to change. Diverse authors need to be part of the process from the beginning.
However! There is ALSO a problem that we have all these tools that are empowering diverse designers to go independent and publish their own games! And that is AWESOME. But when those designers aren’t white dudes, even the smartest, scrappiest, most innovative games don’t get the sales they deserve! Misha and Kim and Kira and I can’t do anything to address crappy hiring practices at big companies. But all of us are people who have published our own games and had them ignored because of our gender and/or race – and that IS a thing that we can address.
I think this is a case of “there’s lots of failure to go around”. More Seats certainly isn’t a panacea! This is just a band-aid for all the times we’ve heard dudes (and trust me it’s been lots) say they want to buy more games by people who don’t look like them, but they’ve spent so many years only following dude designers that they have no idea where to look.
* There is a thing I’m also afraid of for More Seats, that it will serve only to promote work by white women and queer folks. I desperately hope that won’t be the case and want to do what I can to avert that.
Hey Jason. This is all really good commentary and mostly I am commenting as a placeholder to come back and be more expansive when I am not COMPLETELY swamped, but in the mean time, in no particular order:
* I don’t believe in cookies, but I have always been super impressed with how Jason Morningstar and Bully Pulpit operate. Star Crossed is a super exciting example of them throwing their brand behind an awesome game that would have been overlooked as being “for girls” probably. (I speak as the author of another romance game “for girls”.)
* Absolutely, the current publishing model of “bolt on diversity through stretch goals” is crappy and needs to change. Diverse authors need to be part of the process from the beginning.
However! There is ALSO a problem that we have all these tools that are empowering diverse designers to go independent and publish their own games! And that is AWESOME. But when those designers aren’t white dudes, even the smartest, scrappiest, most innovative games don’t get the sales they deserve! Misha and Kim and Kira and I can’t do anything to address crappy hiring practices at big companies. But all of us are people who have published our own games and had them ignored because of our gender and/or race – and that IS a thing that we can address.
I think this is a case of “there’s lots of failure to go around”. More Seats certainly isn’t a panacea! This is just a band-aid for all the times we’ve heard dudes (and trust me it’s been lots) say they want to buy more games by people who don’t look like them, but they’ve spent so many years only following dude designers that they have no idea where to look.
* There is a thing I’m also afraid of for More Seats, that it will serve only to promote work by white women and queer folks. I desperately hope that won’t be the case and want to do what I can to avert that.
Listening
Listening
And then Jason Morningstar wrote everything I wanted to say! You can read his excellent description of a messy and complex problem here: https://www.facebook.com/jmstar/posts/10105717902454468
And then Jason Morningstar wrote everything I wanted to say! You can read his excellent description of a messy and complex problem here: https://www.facebook.com/jmstar/posts/10105717902454468
Or if you’d prefer to stay in g+ https://plus.google.com/+JasonMorningstar/posts/N96S4uS7qpZ
plus.google.com – Here’s a thing that happens all the time: Someone creates a cool game, and …
Or if you’d prefer to stay in g+ https://plus.google.com/+JasonMorningstar/posts/N96S4uS7qpZ
plus.google.com – Here’s a thing that happens all the time: Someone creates a cool game, and …
Perhaps a direction for Gauntlet 3.0 is into publishing with an emphasis on marginalized designers. Cliched but, “Be the change you want to see in the world”. You have the voice. You have the reach. You have the passion. You have a ton of supremely talented and dedicated people behind you wanting you to succeed.
Perhaps a direction for Gauntlet 3.0 is into publishing with an emphasis on marginalized designers. Cliched but, “Be the change you want to see in the world”. You have the voice. You have the reach. You have the passion. You have a ton of supremely talented and dedicated people behind you wanting you to succeed.
As a cis dude I know I am not part of the group this is for, but I just want to say, I feel like The Gauntlet and Codex have given me a platform and an audience (and a paycheck) for my work that I can’t imagine having accomplished on my own, especially as my games are aggressively about queer/minority life (as I am gay and poly and sex positive, I feel compelled to write for these things). So thanks for that, Jason.
As a cis dude I know I am not part of the group this is for, but I just want to say, I feel like The Gauntlet and Codex have given me a platform and an audience (and a paycheck) for my work that I can’t imagine having accomplished on my own, especially as my games are aggressively about queer/minority life (as I am gay and poly and sex positive, I feel compelled to write for these things). So thanks for that, Jason.
Culture change can be really slow and needs to happen on multiple levels. Even if all designers were getting equal publicity, players out there will gravitate toward things that most interest them and to (more significantly) to comfort zones. Take Kira Magrann’s recent game, Cozy Den. To me, it sounds awesome. But how many gamers are going to run to a GM-less game in which they play lesbian snakes wintering? How many will even try it if coaxed? I would guess at a smaller % than any of us would hope given how many axis in that game have been shifted from the lowest common RPG denominator. Promoting something is about a lot more than just plussing and echoing the voices of marginalized designers (however you define that). It’s about changing the culture from the inside. I think the Gauntlet does an amazing job because it’s about offering people space in, encouraging people to play, and talking about the play of games by marginalized designers. If I echo the post in question, that is something. If I play one of the games and talk about why I think it was cool that is something x100. This is especially true for me as a straight, white, middle-aged male. If others see me “skinny dipping” they might throw caution to the wind and play as a lesbian snake too.
Culture change can be really slow and needs to happen on multiple levels. Even if all designers were getting equal publicity, players out there will gravitate toward things that most interest them and to (more significantly) to comfort zones. Take Kira Magrann’s recent game, Cozy Den. To me, it sounds awesome. But how many gamers are going to run to a GM-less game in which they play lesbian snakes wintering? How many will even try it if coaxed? I would guess at a smaller % than any of us would hope given how many axis in that game have been shifted from the lowest common RPG denominator. Promoting something is about a lot more than just plussing and echoing the voices of marginalized designers (however you define that). It’s about changing the culture from the inside. I think the Gauntlet does an amazing job because it’s about offering people space in, encouraging people to play, and talking about the play of games by marginalized designers. If I echo the post in question, that is something. If I play one of the games and talk about why I think it was cool that is something x100. This is especially true for me as a straight, white, middle-aged male. If others see me “skinny dipping” they might throw caution to the wind and play as a lesbian snake too.
Misha B Anna Kreider To be perfectly clear, I think More Seats at the Table is a really cool idea. As soon as I am back home, I intend to pledge on the Gauntlet’s behalf.
But my instincts tell me that we often let publishers off the hook when it comes to making profound change in the hobby, and we do it for a lot of different reasons: familiarity gained with people at conventions, accepting the most basic of social media signaling as genuine effort, and so forth. Some of the companies that have been around for awhile in the indie space can’t even credibly be called “indie” anymore. These are decent-sized outfits who are getting by on a lot of (tbf, well-earned) goodwill.
Ultimately, I just think people with bigger budgets have more of an obligation, and there is nothing wrong with saying that. It can’t all be chalked up to consumer laziness or bias (though obviously that is a problem).
Misha B Anna Kreider To be perfectly clear, I think More Seats at the Table is a really cool idea. As soon as I am back home, I intend to pledge on the Gauntlet’s behalf.
But my instincts tell me that we often let publishers off the hook when it comes to making profound change in the hobby, and we do it for a lot of different reasons: familiarity gained with people at conventions, accepting the most basic of social media signaling as genuine effort, and so forth. Some of the companies that have been around for awhile in the indie space can’t even credibly be called “indie” anymore. These are decent-sized outfits who are getting by on a lot of (tbf, well-earned) goodwill.
Ultimately, I just think people with bigger budgets have more of an obligation, and there is nothing wrong with saying that. It can’t all be chalked up to consumer laziness or bias (though obviously that is a problem).
I think this is a both/and situation. Yes, still hold bigger publishers’ feet to the fire but also promote those who have done it themselves since the big publishers didn’t.
I think this is a both/and situation. Yes, still hold bigger publishers’ feet to the fire but also promote those who have done it themselves since the big publishers didn’t.
I’m excited about it. I think people curate their spaces with unintentional biases all the time. If I can subscribe to a newsletter highlighting these folks and then add them to my social media circles and support them; hell yeah!
Love this about The Gauntlet hiring folks directly for Codex. Hopefully the amount of folks who freelance can increase via the newsletter as well.
I’m pumped about all of this!
I’m excited about it. I think people curate their spaces with unintentional biases all the time. If I can subscribe to a newsletter highlighting these folks and then add them to my social media circles and support them; hell yeah!
Love this about The Gauntlet hiring folks directly for Codex. Hopefully the amount of folks who freelance can increase via the newsletter as well.
I’m pumped about all of this!
Joshua Kershaw That’s a cool thought but the minute The Gauntlet becomes a publisher it stops being agnostic toward other publishers, right? I mean let’s say The Gauntlet has a cool new game by a marginalized designer and so does another company, and the games have a similar feel/theme. The Gauntlet would be promoting its own and would probably have less interest in promoting the other. I like that The Gauntlet is totally “play first” and community oriented. They use their voice to raise the tide and float ALL boats. Not just an in house stable.
Joshua Kershaw That’s a cool thought but the minute The Gauntlet becomes a publisher it stops being agnostic toward other publishers, right? I mean let’s say The Gauntlet has a cool new game by a marginalized designer and so does another company, and the games have a similar feel/theme. The Gauntlet would be promoting its own and would probably have less interest in promoting the other. I like that The Gauntlet is totally “play first” and community oriented. They use their voice to raise the tide and float ALL boats. Not just an in house stable.
Ray Otus So. I hear you that this problem is complex. But what I’m also hearing is a lot of defeatism in response to people talking about concrete action. Obviously no one solution is going to fix such a complex, multi-layered problem. But I’ll gently suggest that your defeatism in the face of people trying to take action is maybe not helpful.
Ray Otus So. I hear you that this problem is complex. But what I’m also hearing is a lot of defeatism in response to people talking about concrete action. Obviously no one solution is going to fix such a complex, multi-layered problem. But I’ll gently suggest that your defeatism in the face of people trying to take action is maybe not helpful.
Yeah, I might get burnt for this, but I think more folks should also take a look at Mike Pondsmith (R. Talsorian Games). Awesome original games, great licensed titles, has great distributor-ship in every game store I visited. He was always making cool things I wanted.
Imagine my surprise when I saw a video that he created. “Who’s that bad ass? Oh wait… /that’s/ Mike Pondsmith?” I have more respect for him now than ever.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYxt7cwDk4E
Yeah, I might get burnt for this, but I think more folks should also take a look at Mike Pondsmith (R. Talsorian Games). Awesome original games, great licensed titles, has great distributor-ship in every game store I visited. He was always making cool things I wanted.
Imagine my surprise when I saw a video that he created. “Who’s that bad ass? Oh wait… /that’s/ Mike Pondsmith?” I have more respect for him now than ever.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYxt7cwDk4E
Ray Otus Joshua Kershaw And yet the thought has occurred to me. Certainly Codex is in competition with Plundergrounds and SwordBreaker, but it hasn’t stopped us from promoting those two zines (and, to a lesser extent, Session Zero). And shows like FoaBD could not credibly exist in an environment where our publishing efforts are too tightly intertwined with podcast production.
The thought has occurred to me. I wouldn’t say the early issues of Codex are paragons of diversity–there are a dozen things I would do differently today–but more recent issues have been really forward-thinking. (Next month, for example, we have a piece in the zine I am really excited about that is about a cross-dressing queer subculture in the early 90s.) The balance of representation in, say, the last 7 or 8 issues, has been quite good, and getting better. But we have a ways to go, too: I’m not totally happy with it.
I think we have a lot of infrastructure in place to make Gauntlet 3.0 as Joshua has described. Obviously, we have a terrific pipeline for playtesting and feedback, and we have a tiny bit of cash to front the costs for things like KS.
But I also think there are companies who are much better situated to do this than we are (and one or two who are already doing it–Magpie comes to mind–and who should not be forgotten in this convo.)
Ray Otus Joshua Kershaw And yet the thought has occurred to me. Certainly Codex is in competition with Plundergrounds and SwordBreaker, but it hasn’t stopped us from promoting those two zines (and, to a lesser extent, Session Zero). And shows like FoaBD could not credibly exist in an environment where our publishing efforts are too tightly intertwined with podcast production.
The thought has occurred to me. I wouldn’t say the early issues of Codex are paragons of diversity–there are a dozen things I would do differently today–but more recent issues have been really forward-thinking. (Next month, for example, we have a piece in the zine I am really excited about that is about a cross-dressing queer subculture in the early 90s.) The balance of representation in, say, the last 7 or 8 issues, has been quite good, and getting better. But we have a ways to go, too: I’m not totally happy with it.
I think we have a lot of infrastructure in place to make Gauntlet 3.0 as Joshua has described. Obviously, we have a terrific pipeline for playtesting and feedback, and we have a tiny bit of cash to front the costs for things like KS.
But I also think there are companies who are much better situated to do this than we are (and one or two who are already doing it–Magpie comes to mind–and who should not be forgotten in this convo.)
Jason Cordova Joshua Kershaw Good points! Though I won’t accept the label “defeatism.” I was trying to point out that not being a publisher could be seen as a strength and give The Gauntlet more power, not less, to enact change. But I could be wrong about that.
Jason Cordova Joshua Kershaw Good points! Though I won’t accept the label “defeatism.” I was trying to point out that not being a publisher could be seen as a strength and give The Gauntlet more power, not less, to enact change. But I could be wrong about that.
Todd Zircher Mike Pondsmith is currently backing and helping to develop maaaaybe one of the most anticipated video games in recent years with Cyberpunk 2077, and is widely known compared to other marginalized folks in the hobby. The company is doing well.
Todd Zircher Mike Pondsmith is currently backing and helping to develop maaaaybe one of the most anticipated video games in recent years with Cyberpunk 2077, and is widely known compared to other marginalized folks in the hobby. The company is doing well.
In both the post and the thread, I have been called out as a consumer that I am not buying the “right” games. What can I do to help fix this? I have always just bought the games I wanted to play. I don’t ever recall ignoring a game because of anything I knew about the designer.
In both the post and the thread, I have been called out as a consumer that I am not buying the “right” games. What can I do to help fix this? I have always just bought the games I wanted to play. I don’t ever recall ignoring a game because of anything I knew about the designer.
Noah Ban Visibility of games by diverse creators is plainly a problem. Subscribing to the newsletter is probably a good idea.
I don’t think characterizing the situation as the need to look for the “right” games is helpful. Fabulous games come from all kinds of people, and at the end of the day, I don’t fault anyone for buying and playing what they like. I do think “what people like” is greatly shaped and influenced by bigger publishers, though.
Noah Ban Visibility of games by diverse creators is plainly a problem. Subscribing to the newsletter is probably a good idea.
I don’t think characterizing the situation as the need to look for the “right” games is helpful. Fabulous games come from all kinds of people, and at the end of the day, I don’t fault anyone for buying and playing what they like. I do think “what people like” is greatly shaped and influenced by bigger publishers, though.
Fraser Simons True, true. What I guess I’m trying to say is that look at where he started and where he is now. His passions and creativity have carried him and should be a shining example that it can be done. And, a lot of that was without the benefit of the production and communication tech we have today.
Fraser Simons True, true. What I guess I’m trying to say is that look at where he started and where he is now. His passions and creativity have carried him and should be a shining example that it can be done. And, a lot of that was without the benefit of the production and communication tech we have today.
Jason Cordova I’m really happy to have read this comment. Support for marginalized creatives can come in many forms. Marginalized visual artists, playtesters, podcasters, game designers, game visualizers. A good product needs all of those, benefits from all of those, and there are lots of places for marginalized folks to shine therein. What a socially conscious group can do is promote inclusion at all of these levels!
Jason Cordova I’m really happy to have read this comment. Support for marginalized creatives can come in many forms. Marginalized visual artists, playtesters, podcasters, game designers, game visualizers. A good product needs all of those, benefits from all of those, and there are lots of places for marginalized folks to shine therein. What a socially conscious group can do is promote inclusion at all of these levels!
It’s great he’s done well for himself, yeah. The landscape of publishing is vastly different now though, so the newsletter is a good way to help people out.
It’s great he’s done well for himself, yeah. The landscape of publishing is vastly different now though, so the newsletter is a good way to help people out.
And for those reading and thinking “where’s the links? what is this? how do I sign up for this newsletter to get exposed to such games?”, here they are, pulled from Jason Morningstar’s post that Anna Kreider and Misha B linked above:
Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/moreseatsrpg
Newsletter: https://patreon.us15.list-manage.com/subscribe?u=c71a6dc90e8b0c6728a9e2dcb&id=6eadbc8c82
And for those reading and thinking “where’s the links? what is this? how do I sign up for this newsletter to get exposed to such games?”, here they are, pulled from Jason Morningstar’s post that Anna Kreider and Misha B linked above:
Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/moreseatsrpg
Newsletter: https://patreon.us15.list-manage.com/subscribe?u=c71a6dc90e8b0c6728a9e2dcb&id=6eadbc8c82
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Jim Crocker I mean, no one is a greater guardian of the Gauntlet’s fundamental character than I am. People didn’t think we should have done Codex, either, but I would say it feels like a really natural extension of our ethos. A larger publishing effort could be the same way.
Jim Crocker I mean, no one is a greater guardian of the Gauntlet’s fundamental character than I am. People didn’t think we should have done Codex, either, but I would say it feels like a really natural extension of our ethos. A larger publishing effort could be the same way.
Jason Cordova The way Codex is constructed it promotes lots of community voices.
Jason Cordova The way Codex is constructed it promotes lots of community voices.
I support grassroots efforts, like this project, to promote marginalized creators. I also support holding big publishers to account for lack of diversity in their creative teams and projects. As Misha B cogently stated, these are not mutually exclusive options. If you support the diversification of voices in gaming, then you should subscribe and back this project. It’s that simple. Here is the Patreon link: https://www.patreon.com/posts/more-seats-at-by-18369555
I also see a natural connection between More Seats and the Gauntlet. Jason Cordova previously mentioned plans to playtest games designed by marginalized creators. The Gauntlet would be a great place to test and promote games featured in More Seats. Personally, I don’t GM, but I would gladly facilitate GM-less games and definitely play in either kind of game.
I hope we can change the mood here. This is a super cool effort by some amazing women designers to promote marginalized creators. THIS IS FUCKING AWESOME!
patreon.com – More Seats at the Table: a newsletter featuring awesome games by underloved designers | More Seats at the Table on Patreon
I support grassroots efforts, like this project, to promote marginalized creators. I also support holding big publishers to account for lack of diversity in their creative teams and projects. As Misha B cogently stated, these are not mutually exclusive options. If you support the diversification of voices in gaming, then you should subscribe and back this project. It’s that simple. Here is the Patreon link: https://www.patreon.com/posts/more-seats-at-by-18369555
I also see a natural connection between More Seats and the Gauntlet. Jason Cordova previously mentioned plans to playtest games designed by marginalized creators. The Gauntlet would be a great place to test and promote games featured in More Seats. Personally, I don’t GM, but I would gladly facilitate GM-less games and definitely play in either kind of game.
I hope we can change the mood here. This is a super cool effort by some amazing women designers to promote marginalized creators. THIS IS FUCKING AWESOME!
patreon.com – More Seats at the Table: a newsletter featuring awesome games by underloved designers | More Seats at the Table on Patreon
It’s a slow wheel to turn. Last week Evil Hat had our annual summit and we looked at games to add to our roster. Of the 13 presented, 11 of them were designed by people from marginalized groups. We made offers on four right away, and we’re waiting on the development of seven more with plans to make offers when they are ready.
I was very happy with those results, but of the games that are ready, those will take a nine months to a year to get on the market. Of the games that aren’t ready, it’s likely 18-36 months (depending on how much more design work is needed and how much finishing and packaging we’ll have to do).
I’m firmly support raising up voices. I think we’re doing good work. It just takes a lot of time and energy (and more time) to get them finished and onto shelves.
It’s a slow wheel to turn. Last week Evil Hat had our annual summit and we looked at games to add to our roster. Of the 13 presented, 11 of them were designed by people from marginalized groups. We made offers on four right away, and we’re waiting on the development of seven more with plans to make offers when they are ready.
I was very happy with those results, but of the games that are ready, those will take a nine months to a year to get on the market. Of the games that aren’t ready, it’s likely 18-36 months (depending on how much more design work is needed and how much finishing and packaging we’ll have to do).
I’m firmly support raising up voices. I think we’re doing good work. It just takes a lot of time and energy (and more time) to get them finished and onto shelves.
Jason Cordova A more nuanced hot take—ha!
I like seeing projects trying to help marginalized groups that are being championed by people from those groups. (I find projects trying to promote diversity suspect when the people doing the work aren’t actually a part of the communities they are trying to support. It’s annoying when people try to centre themselves in other people’s struggles: if you don’t know any black people maybe you shouldn’t be running this Black Lives Matters group, etc.)
The most obvious way to help marginalized voices in gaming (or wherever really) is to give them your cash-money. If you have some clout you can probably turn that into something valuable. I guess that’s the goal here. If you aren’t a publishing imprint and want to move the needle, it’s something to do. I see work like this as totally independent from publisher themselves stepping up their game.
Jason Cordova A more nuanced hot take—ha!
I like seeing projects trying to help marginalized groups that are being championed by people from those groups. (I find projects trying to promote diversity suspect when the people doing the work aren’t actually a part of the communities they are trying to support. It’s annoying when people try to centre themselves in other people’s struggles: if you don’t know any black people maybe you shouldn’t be running this Black Lives Matters group, etc.)
The most obvious way to help marginalized voices in gaming (or wherever really) is to give them your cash-money. If you have some clout you can probably turn that into something valuable. I guess that’s the goal here. If you aren’t a publishing imprint and want to move the needle, it’s something to do. I see work like this as totally independent from publisher themselves stepping up their game.
Thanks for the feedback here everyone. This has been a very illuminating thread. I’m going to close it up, mostly because I don’t think there is much more to say, but also I’m just out of bandwidth.
Thanks for the feedback here everyone. This has been a very illuminating thread. I’m going to close it up, mostly because I don’t think there is much more to say, but also I’m just out of bandwidth.