Whenever someone tells me Fear of a Black Dragon doesn’t count as an OSR podcast, I roll my eyes so fucking hard.

Whenever someone tells me Fear of a Black Dragon doesn’t count as an OSR podcast, I roll my eyes so fucking hard.

Whenever someone tells me Fear of a Black Dragon doesn’t count as an OSR podcast, I roll my eyes so fucking hard. News flash: even though Tom McGrenery and I may not fit into the typical OSR player profile (whatever the fuck that even means) and even though our show focuses on aspects of play and culture beyond just “What do I have to roll to hit this monster?” there is a really strong chance WE PLAY MORE OSR MODULES THAN YOU DO.

98 thoughts on “Whenever someone tells me Fear of a Black Dragon doesn’t count as an OSR podcast, I roll my eyes so fucking hard.”

  7. I guess it’s because we don’t talk about OSR systems? But, like, almost by definition there is nothing to actually talk about when it comes to systems in the OSR. The whole point is they are using old systems that have already been interrogated, or they only differ from each other in the most marginal ways. I can’t make a 45 minute podcast out of the fact The Black Hack has a different way of tracking equipment.

  8. I guess it’s because we don’t talk about OSR systems? But, like, almost by definition there is nothing to actually talk about when it comes to systems in the OSR. The whole point is they are using old systems that have already been interrogated, or they only differ from each other in the most marginal ways. I can’t make a 45 minute podcast out of the fact The Black Hack has a different way of tracking equipment.

  11. Jason Cordova Gatekeepers gonna gatekeep and modules, settings etc are where the DIY D&D community is at their most creative. I’m not sure about systems being boring, though. I have zero interest in retro clones for example but I do think that the Euro OSR people (not an actual group) have come up with interesting twists to an old formula. Troika, Into the Odd, Whitehack etc do add new ideas. BTW: Did you know that Paul Czege is working on a Macchiato Monster Hack?

  12. Jason Cordova Gatekeepers gonna gatekeep and modules, settings etc are where the DIY D&D community is at their most creative. I’m not sure about systems being boring, though. I have zero interest in retro clones for example but I do think that the Euro OSR people (not an actual group) have come up with interesting twists to an old formula. Troika, Into the Odd, Whitehack etc do add new ideas. BTW: Did you know that Paul Czege is working on a Macchiato Monster Hack?

  19. I’ve really dug the analysis and review y’all have conducted. To hell with any questioning of cred.

    (I mean to hell with that nonsense generally, but also very much in the specific case as well.)

  20. I’ve really dug the analysis and review y’all have conducted. To hell with any questioning of cred.

    (I mean to hell with that nonsense generally, but also very much in the specific case as well.)

  21. This year I’ve committed to saying “fuck gatekeepers” over and over again.

    Probably not the best business practice as a gaming event show runner, but seriously I have zero patience for people gatekeeping our hobby any more.

    I’m a middle aged man, I do not want to live the last half of my life dealing with this shit in a hobby I care so much about.

    Fuck Gatekeepers.

  22. This year I’ve committed to saying “fuck gatekeepers” over and over again.

    Probably not the best business practice as a gaming event show runner, but seriously I have zero patience for people gatekeeping our hobby any more.

    I’m a middle aged man, I do not want to live the last half of my life dealing with this shit in a hobby I care so much about.

    Fuck Gatekeepers.

  25. Well now I’m going to listen to Fear of the Black Dragon when I get a chance.

    It’s only dawned on me about a year ago that “old school” doesn’t have to include the table culture common in the 80s-90s D&D (GM as table god, referring to your character as “my guy”, naming them silly names because they’re just gonna die, adversarial GMing), but can instead mean just the rules and fantasy tropes of the 80s-90s.

  26. Well now I’m going to listen to Fear of the Black Dragon when I get a chance.

    It’s only dawned on me about a year ago that “old school” doesn’t have to include the table culture common in the 80s-90s D&D (GM as table god, referring to your character as “my guy”, naming them silly names because they’re just gonna die, adversarial GMing), but can instead mean just the rules and fantasy tropes of the 80s-90s.

  27. Horst Wurst, it’s diverged a lot from Macchiato Monsters as I’ve readied it for playtesting, and I can see it will probably diverge more with the actual playtesting. I may have jumped the gun by describing it as a hack. It’s enough diverged that probably some people will say it’s not OSR.

  28. Horst Wurst, it’s diverged a lot from Macchiato Monsters as I’ve readied it for playtesting, and I can see it will probably diverge more with the actual playtesting. I may have jumped the gun by describing it as a hack. It’s enough diverged that probably some people will say it’s not OSR.

  29. I would agree with the point that you do not always refer to old school systems when discussing old school modules on the podcast, but then again you just talked about Call of Cthulhu which I definitely count as old school. But old school system and old school play are two separate things.

    But I have to disagree when you say “But, like, almost by definition there is nothing to actually talk about when it comes to systems in the OSR.” Unless you are sticking to the narrowest definition possible there is a ton of things to talk about in old school systems.

  30. I would agree with the point that you do not always refer to old school systems when discussing old school modules on the podcast, but then again you just talked about Call of Cthulhu which I definitely count as old school. But old school system and old school play are two separate things.

    But I have to disagree when you say “But, like, almost by definition there is nothing to actually talk about when it comes to systems in the OSR.” Unless you are sticking to the narrowest definition possible there is a ton of things to talk about in old school systems.

  31. I find a lot of people who pull that kind of crap don’t really remember what old school was like. We tried all kinds of things back when we were gaming in the 80’s. Rules light to complex as hell. Rules as written to making things up on the fly. We tried every weird idea that saw print in Dragon Magazine and came up with many more of our own. Today people complain that things like Dragonborn aren’t old school, but back in the early 80’s we were making up rules for playing tabaxi, thri-kreen, and all kinds of other races. One of my favorite characters from “back in the day” was a doppelganger.

    Old school is experimental as hell.

    There are more definitions to OSR than there are entries in a DMG’s random table. To me it has always meant that because styles or systems from a game are old doesn’t mean that they’re obsolete.

  32. I find a lot of people who pull that kind of crap don’t really remember what old school was like. We tried all kinds of things back when we were gaming in the 80’s. Rules light to complex as hell. Rules as written to making things up on the fly. We tried every weird idea that saw print in Dragon Magazine and came up with many more of our own. Today people complain that things like Dragonborn aren’t old school, but back in the early 80’s we were making up rules for playing tabaxi, thri-kreen, and all kinds of other races. One of my favorite characters from “back in the day” was a doppelganger.

    Old school is experimental as hell.

    There are more definitions to OSR than there are entries in a DMG’s random table. To me it has always meant that because styles or systems from a game are old doesn’t mean that they’re obsolete.

  41. The funny thing is … if it ain’t OSR what is it? You are talking about OSR modules and not talking much about system. So … what would they call it? I mean, if I talked about NASCAR races in a podcast and what beers I liked to drink while watching them (I don’t watch NASCAR, but you get the drift) would that not be a NASCAR podcast? I’d like to hear one of these gatekeepers characterize the cast. I think that would be very telling.

  42. The funny thing is … if it ain’t OSR what is it? You are talking about OSR modules and not talking much about system. So … what would they call it? I mean, if I talked about NASCAR races in a podcast and what beers I liked to drink while watching them (I don’t watch NASCAR, but you get the drift) would that not be a NASCAR podcast? I’d like to hear one of these gatekeepers characterize the cast. I think that would be very telling.

  43. I’m so done with anything remotely resembling “OSR vs. story/indie games.” It is occasionally interesting to compare and contrast them as schools of game design, but the idea that either school of design is “real roleplaying” or “what people really want” or “better” or whateverthefuck is goddamn moronic. There is no best way to pretend to be an elf, and there shouldn’t be, because that’s fucking boring.

    The people who perpetuate this ridiculous nonsense should be ashamed of themselves, and the people who gatekeep while they do it should be doubly ashamed. All roleplaying games are roleplaying games, period, end of discussion.

    EDIT: Same goes for “trad vs. indie,” for that matter.

  44. I’m so done with anything remotely resembling “OSR vs. story/indie games.” It is occasionally interesting to compare and contrast them as schools of game design, but the idea that either school of design is “real roleplaying” or “what people really want” or “better” or whateverthefuck is goddamn moronic. There is no best way to pretend to be an elf, and there shouldn’t be, because that’s fucking boring.

    The people who perpetuate this ridiculous nonsense should be ashamed of themselves, and the people who gatekeep while they do it should be doubly ashamed. All roleplaying games are roleplaying games, period, end of discussion.

    EDIT: Same goes for “trad vs. indie,” for that matter.

  47. Jason Cordova, I see this gatekeeper behavior two ways.

    1 – It’s, as Robert Bohl says, a personal attack on you that has little to do with the material.

    2 – It has more to do with claiming space and identity marking. It’s not personal at all and has little to do with the material.

    Not a lot to worry about either way.

  48. Jason Cordova, I see this gatekeeper behavior two ways.

    1 – It’s, as Robert Bohl says, a personal attack on you that has little to do with the material.

    2 – It has more to do with claiming space and identity marking. It’s not personal at all and has little to do with the material.

    Not a lot to worry about either way.

  59. Jason Cordova oh wait, I also listen to GG NO RE! 😭 But that’s it. So close.

    (The only gaming podcasts I listen to is their one, when they aren’t doing actual plays, and then several of yours: this one, the main podcast and +1 forward—which is extra impressive since I almost never play PbtA games. I’ve said before the Gauntlet podcasts are all really polished and aren’t full of rambling and aren’t 2 hours long.)

  60. Jason Cordova oh wait, I also listen to GG NO RE! 😭 But that’s it. So close.

    (The only gaming podcasts I listen to is their one, when they aren’t doing actual plays, and then several of yours: this one, the main podcast and +1 forward—which is extra impressive since I almost never play PbtA games. I’ve said before the Gauntlet podcasts are all really polished and aren’t full of rambling and aren’t 2 hours long.)

  73. It’s because of your content. Qulong, keep on the borderlands, blood in the chocolate, yoon-suin and for God’s sake, death frost doom. Osr, more like old school!

  74. It’s because of your content. Qulong, keep on the borderlands, blood in the chocolate, yoon-suin and for God’s sake, death frost doom. Osr, more like old school!

  75. As a long-time Gauntlet silent lurker and an OSR fan all I can say is that FoaBD is one of my favourite podcasts out there – it’s refreshing (and, of course, it has the best name)

  76. As a long-time Gauntlet silent lurker and an OSR fan all I can say is that FoaBD is one of my favourite podcasts out there – it’s refreshing (and, of course, it has the best name)

  77. The silliest thing about this to me as a Definitely Not Old School Gamer (started rpgs with Cubicle 7s One Ring, since then FFG Star Wars, DW, etc) is that I think we have a unique perspective to see how OSR and Storygaming are shooting for the same thing: a set of mechanics that supports the narrative and lets the players push it forward on their own so it emerges fresh at the table. Watching people fight over that just makes me laugh because, basically, both “sides” end up going to very similar places and goals.

  78. The silliest thing about this to me as a Definitely Not Old School Gamer (started rpgs with Cubicle 7s One Ring, since then FFG Star Wars, DW, etc) is that I think we have a unique perspective to see how OSR and Storygaming are shooting for the same thing: a set of mechanics that supports the narrative and lets the players push it forward on their own so it emerges fresh at the table. Watching people fight over that just makes me laugh because, basically, both “sides” end up going to very similar places and goals.

  79. Zachary Grafman Great insight, and I really think that is the key thing with FoaBD. It’s a show that leans into the idea that these two things are basically the same. I think it’s part of what makes it so special (apart from Tom and I’s sparkling personalities, of course).

  80. Zachary Grafman Great insight, and I really think that is the key thing with FoaBD. It’s a show that leans into the idea that these two things are basically the same. I think it’s part of what makes it so special (apart from Tom and I’s sparkling personalities, of course).

  85. I don’t get to listen too much to FoaBD, but I love how inventive you two are when talking about these modules. You have such a strong sense of what is notable about the texts and what are key takeaways even if I never pick it up for myself!

  86. I don’t get to listen too much to FoaBD, but I love how inventive you two are when talking about these modules. You have such a strong sense of what is notable about the texts and what are key takeaways even if I never pick it up for myself!

  87. I think one thing that would be interesting to know is how you run PbtA in an Old School way. I listen to your podcast because, like you, I’m a huge fan of the OSR modules / feel. However, as someone that’s not into PbtA, it’s not clear to me how you would use that rules system to give you an OSR feel since prima face PbtA seems antithetical to that feel.

    That would make a great episode!

  88. I think one thing that would be interesting to know is how you run PbtA in an Old School way. I listen to your podcast because, like you, I’m a huge fan of the OSR modules / feel. However, as someone that’s not into PbtA, it’s not clear to me how you would use that rules system to give you an OSR feel since prima face PbtA seems antithetical to that feel.

    That would make a great episode!

  89. There is a terrible part of me that is fascinated with watching part of our hobby decide to burn itself down in the name of purity. To my shame I have participated in this in the past. See, getting older sometimes pays off.

  90. There is a terrible part of me that is fascinated with watching part of our hobby decide to burn itself down in the name of purity. To my shame I have participated in this in the past. See, getting older sometimes pays off.

  93. Gary Furash Try running World of Dungeons, it is not like most PbtA games. “Rulings not rules” is the centrepiece and there is plenty of room to think in a problem solving way. I played in many of Tom’s games and I can tell you that they did not play like Dungeon World or similar PbtA games. I’ve also played classic Shadowrun modules with a WoDu based game and it felt very old school (Very different from The Sprawl or Blades). Give it a try, you may be surprised with the results.

  94. Gary Furash Try running World of Dungeons, it is not like most PbtA games. “Rulings not rules” is the centrepiece and there is plenty of room to think in a problem solving way. I played in many of Tom’s games and I can tell you that they did not play like Dungeon World or similar PbtA games. I’ve also played classic Shadowrun modules with a WoDu based game and it felt very old school (Very different from The Sprawl or Blades). Give it a try, you may be surprised with the results.

  97. I feel like “OSR” is the new “punk.” People just like to gatekeep. Sadly as the “punk” gatekeepers miss out on some amazing music “OSR” gatekeepers are going to miss out on some amazing games. Their loss.

  98. I feel like “OSR” is the new “punk.” People just like to gatekeep. Sadly as the “punk” gatekeepers miss out on some amazing music “OSR” gatekeepers are going to miss out on some amazing games. Their loss.

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