Do we need a new name for games that look like role playing games; but are instead games about building worlds, or…

Do we need a new name for games that look like role playing games; but are instead games about building worlds, or…

Do we need a new name for games that look like role playing games; but are instead games about building worlds, or aspects of setting?

Microscope

Dialect

Kingdom

The Quiet Year

How to Host a Dungeon

etc

etc

If the answer might be yes, suggestions include:

World Building Games

Setting Builders

68 thoughts on “Do we need a new name for games that look like role playing games; but are instead games about building worlds, or…”

  1. Eh. You might be right, but I don’t really love fixed terms/labels. I think you can describe a game as a “setting building game” or “world building game” or “story game” or whatever as a byline and avoid the problem (endless debate and inevitable exclusivity) of a defined term. For instance, I can say “Microscope is an unusual role-playing game that is focused more on building a world and its history than on taking the part of a character.” Very few will argue the point. But the minute I say “Micoscope is a World-Building Game not a Role-Playing Game”… Oh gawd. I don’t want to see that thread.

  2. Eh. You might be right, but I don’t really love fixed terms/labels. I think you can describe a game as a “setting building game” or “world building game” or “story game” or whatever as a byline and avoid the problem (endless debate and inevitable exclusivity) of a defined term. For instance, I can say “Microscope is an unusual role-playing game that is focused more on building a world and its history than on taking the part of a character.” Very few will argue the point. But the minute I say “Micoscope is a World-Building Game not a Role-Playing Game”… Oh gawd. I don’t want to see that thread.

  5. I think “story game” covers it. they are games that tell the stories of such-and-such world in broader and bigger ways sometimes outside the scope of individual characters.

  6. I think “story game” covers it. they are games that tell the stories of such-and-such world in broader and bigger ways sometimes outside the scope of individual characters.

  7. Chris Shorb, see, I really have no interest in debating that point. If you do, go ahead and invent a label and try to get others to adopt it. Also be ready to defend your definition of a role-playing game. Fun! You will find lots of people ready to “discuss” your proposed terms/definitions. I’ll be avoiding that discussion. 🙂 Re: Microscope specifically, I can tell you that I have played it and it involved roleplaying (it has rules for and we did indeed play out scenes from the vantage point of characters).

  8. Chris Shorb, see, I really have no interest in debating that point. If you do, go ahead and invent a label and try to get others to adopt it. Also be ready to defend your definition of a role-playing game. Fun! You will find lots of people ready to “discuss” your proposed terms/definitions. I’ll be avoiding that discussion. 🙂 Re: Microscope specifically, I can tell you that I have played it and it involved roleplaying (it has rules for and we did indeed play out scenes from the vantage point of characters).

  9. PS. I’m not trying to be sarcastic. This may really be a fun subject for you. I’m just giving you my reaction, and maybe a word of caution. And … maybe my tone is sarcastic. But I don’t mean to be a jerk about it. 🙂

  10. PS. I’m not trying to be sarcastic. This may really be a fun subject for you. I’m just giving you my reaction, and maybe a word of caution. And … maybe my tone is sarcastic. But I don’t mean to be a jerk about it. 🙂

  11. Man, I wish I’d read the “what is a role playing game” section in every rule book since 1982…. As in I don’t know or there is no answer… Call them parlour games.

  12. Man, I wish I’d read the “what is a role playing game” section in every rule book since 1982…. As in I don’t know or there is no answer… Call them parlour games.

  15. I wish we could just call everything story games and focus on naming the elements within each game instead of categorizing whole games. From that perspective, Microscope is a story game with both collaborative world building and some role playing. But the term story game carries a very specific meaning to some people and I don’t know if it’s redeemable. We’re probably stuck with using the term role playing games even though it doesn’t quite cover all the games that fit into the same genre of games.

  16. I wish we could just call everything story games and focus on naming the elements within each game instead of categorizing whole games. From that perspective, Microscope is a story game with both collaborative world building and some role playing. But the term story game carries a very specific meaning to some people and I don’t know if it’s redeemable. We’re probably stuck with using the term role playing games even though it doesn’t quite cover all the games that fit into the same genre of games.

  19. Tor Droplets does the term story game carry such a weight with it? I use the term more often than role playing game because I when I talk to people about my hobby, they assume that role playing games are either video games or Trad games. When I start by saying story game, I usually have a faster time explaining what I’m talking about because there are fewer assumptions.

  20. Tor Droplets does the term story game carry such a weight with it? I use the term more often than role playing game because I when I talk to people about my hobby, they assume that role playing games are either video games or Trad games. When I start by saying story game, I usually have a faster time explaining what I’m talking about because there are fewer assumptions.

  21. David LaFreniere​ I don’t know. I have the same experience as you and prefer using the word, but I know people use it to differentiate between trad games and “Indie games” or even between some PbtA games and “Indier Indy Games”. I am quite new to the hobby so I have not been a part of this conversation at all. I just know it comes with baggage.

  22. David LaFreniere​ I don’t know. I have the same experience as you and prefer using the word, but I know people use it to differentiate between trad games and “Indie games” or even between some PbtA games and “Indier Indy Games”. I am quite new to the hobby so I have not been a part of this conversation at all. I just know it comes with baggage.

  23. Tor Droplets yeah thats a good point. I guess it really depends on who your audience is. In my example above, those are folks who know nothing about RPGs beyond what they have heard on tv about D&D. If I were talking to a Trad gamer, I might refer to something more specifically as an Indie game or story game to help them understand what I’m talking about more specifically.

  24. Tor Droplets yeah thats a good point. I guess it really depends on who your audience is. In my example above, those are folks who know nothing about RPGs beyond what they have heard on tv about D&D. If I were talking to a Trad gamer, I might refer to something more specifically as an Indie game or story game to help them understand what I’m talking about more specifically.

  37. If this had happened on a dreary Monday morning Joshua Fox, you may have elicited a different result. Instead It’s a beautiful Friday afternoon, with the sun shining on my face and the pub a stones throw away.

  38. If this had happened on a dreary Monday morning Joshua Fox, you may have elicited a different result. Instead It’s a beautiful Friday afternoon, with the sun shining on my face and the pub a stones throw away.

  43. Eadwin Tomlinson such harsh…language? Noises? I blush at the mere sight of such animosity! How can such saucy things be said on such a civil place as THE INTERNET!?! Oh lord have mercy!

  44. Eadwin Tomlinson such harsh…language? Noises? I blush at the mere sight of such animosity! How can such saucy things be said on such a civil place as THE INTERNET!?! Oh lord have mercy!

  49. Personally and knowing I am in the minority, I am fascinated by this question because taxonomic distinctions between games fascinates me. For example, how would you distinguish between Lady Blackbird (a game designed to play out a single scenario, or at least a single starting point) and most other games that do not define that starting point?

  50. Personally and knowing I am in the minority, I am fascinated by this question because taxonomic distinctions between games fascinates me. For example, how would you distinguish between Lady Blackbird (a game designed to play out a single scenario, or at least a single starting point) and most other games that do not define that starting point?

  59. Honestly not trolling. I felt like these types of games provide a different experience; or perhaps have a different goal in mind. My The Quiet Year experience was much different than my GURPS experience; and I thought maybe naming the difference would be helpful, at least for me.

    I appreciate that some folks fall into Ray Otus, Joshua Fox and others’ camp where it seems “I know it when I see it” or “If it talks like a duck, looks like a duck, and sort of sometimes acts like a duck – it’s a duck” should be applied.

    I’m more in Steven Warble’s camp (obviously), where I like (need?) finer distinctions in taxonomy.

    I don’t claim one is better than another; and I’m sorry if folks felt like I was trying to start a flame war.

    That said, I like Tor Droplets approach best. Maybe what is needed is a way to better identify certain mechanics; and classifying the overall “type” of game is relatively irrelevant.

    Board games have many terms for mechanics – Worker placement, social deduction, auction, hidden information, etc.

    Does anyone know if there’s a list of RPG mechanics any where?

  60. Honestly not trolling. I felt like these types of games provide a different experience; or perhaps have a different goal in mind. My The Quiet Year experience was much different than my GURPS experience; and I thought maybe naming the difference would be helpful, at least for me.

    I appreciate that some folks fall into Ray Otus, Joshua Fox and others’ camp where it seems “I know it when I see it” or “If it talks like a duck, looks like a duck, and sort of sometimes acts like a duck – it’s a duck” should be applied.

    I’m more in Steven Warble’s camp (obviously), where I like (need?) finer distinctions in taxonomy.

    I don’t claim one is better than another; and I’m sorry if folks felt like I was trying to start a flame war.

    That said, I like Tor Droplets approach best. Maybe what is needed is a way to better identify certain mechanics; and classifying the overall “type” of game is relatively irrelevant.

    Board games have many terms for mechanics – Worker placement, social deduction, auction, hidden information, etc.

    Does anyone know if there’s a list of RPG mechanics any where?

  61. In all seriousness I fully understood your point Chris Shorb​ – there is a real difference there. It’s just that it’s no more important a difference than the combat and tactical focus of D&D and cousins vs the character drama of, say, Fiasco. They’re all RPGs, best to discuss their differences and come up with a sub-category than to try and define them as something else.

    I think world building is definitely a good word for this sub-category.

  62. In all seriousness I fully understood your point Chris Shorb​ – there is a real difference there. It’s just that it’s no more important a difference than the combat and tactical focus of D&D and cousins vs the character drama of, say, Fiasco. They’re all RPGs, best to discuss their differences and come up with a sub-category than to try and define them as something else.

    I think world building is definitely a good word for this sub-category.

  63. Yeah sorry Chris Shorb​ I’ve been in a silly mood today. I suppose the question is what is the purpose of differentiation? If it’s to explain to people I would explain the game differences on a case by case basis rather than by grouping them

  64. Yeah sorry Chris Shorb​ I’ve been in a silly mood today. I suppose the question is what is the purpose of differentiation? If it’s to explain to people I would explain the game differences on a case by case basis rather than by grouping them

  67. I am in a similar boat to Tor Droplets. I think it is a good question, but one that’s unlikely to get people to change how these games are referred to. World Building Games, or World Building RPGS works for me. A more inclusive term that would work for me would be Alt-RPGs, which would include games with a significant break from the standard model of 1GM+Xplayers, each with their own character.

  68. I am in a similar boat to Tor Droplets. I think it is a good question, but one that’s unlikely to get people to change how these games are referred to. World Building Games, or World Building RPGS works for me. A more inclusive term that would work for me would be Alt-RPGs, which would include games with a significant break from the standard model of 1GM+Xplayers, each with their own character.

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