Here’s a link to Episode 73 of The Gauntlet Podcast. This one features a nice deep-dive on Uncharted Worlds, some OSR talk, and reflections on games like The Sprawl.
Thanks to my co-hosts Richard Rogers Andrea G and Lowell Francis. And thanks to Steve Mains for this week’s edit.
Cc: James Iles Kevin Crawford Hamish Cameron Symbaroum Team Sean Gomes James Mullen
Enjoy!
Super big thanks, Steve! 🙂
Super big thanks, Steve! 🙂
Godbound sounds enticing, I wonder if any of you guys have tried Nobilis? I reaaaally would love to hear thoughts on that, it’s so cool and seems like a similar concept as Godbound.
I kind of get what Lowell was saying about The Sprawl, I am not sure what I was expecting and I certainly had a great time — but it wasn’t that.
I’m sad I’m missing these Halloween games because I haven’t played any of those games as yet!
Jason Pitre, check out 46:50, I think you’ll be elated with this idea!
Godbound sounds enticing, I wonder if any of you guys have tried Nobilis? I reaaaally would love to hear thoughts on that, it’s so cool and seems like a similar concept as Godbound.
I kind of get what Lowell was saying about The Sprawl, I am not sure what I was expecting and I certainly had a great time — but it wasn’t that.
I’m sad I’m missing these Halloween games because I haven’t played any of those games as yet!
Jason Pitre, check out 46:50, I think you’ll be elated with this idea!
Fraser Simons That is indeed amazing. 🙂 Thank you Richard RogersÂ
Fraser Simons That is indeed amazing. 🙂 Thank you Richard RogersÂ
I agree Lowell Francis​​​, the first session of the Sprawl asked a lot of my “new to gaming” group. By the time we got to the first mission they were a little creatively spent and a little confused about all the connections, so it was hard to maintain focus. It’s reassuring to hear you guys struggled to complete the first session mission in one sitting though. They are all keen on a few more sessions once I have processed all the setting info and connections.
Jason Cordova​​​ Paul Riddle​​​ put out a hack of Undying where you play noble houses called, all men must die. Not sure if it’s readily available but could help with your research at the very least. I may well run 3 sessions in the new year. 
I agree Lowell Francis​​​, the first session of the Sprawl asked a lot of my “new to gaming” group. By the time we got to the first mission they were a little creatively spent and a little confused about all the connections, so it was hard to maintain focus. It’s reassuring to hear you guys struggled to complete the first session mission in one sitting though. They are all keen on a few more sessions once I have processed all the setting info and connections.
Jason Cordova​​​ Paul Riddle​​​ put out a hack of Undying where you play noble houses called, all men must die. Not sure if it’s readily available but could help with your research at the very least. I may well run 3 sessions in the new year. 
Lowell Francis You can abstract the legwork phase to a quicker round table format. When I run it in 2 hr slots at GenCon, we do a quick 30 minute character creation (I get each player to make one legwork roll and use the results to have them tell me things about the mission), then they have five minutes to make a plan, then we go into action phase for the last hour.
It turns out, that when you say “you have five minutes to make a plan” and then start a timer, it’s a race! The record at GenCon 2015 was something like 45 seconds.
If you find the legwork phase is dragging, it might mean that the MC is not giving enough information after each roll.
Lowell Francis You can abstract the legwork phase to a quicker round table format. When I run it in 2 hr slots at GenCon, we do a quick 30 minute character creation (I get each player to make one legwork roll and use the results to have them tell me things about the mission), then they have five minutes to make a plan, then we go into action phase for the last hour.
It turns out, that when you say “you have five minutes to make a plan” and then start a timer, it’s a race! The record at GenCon 2015 was something like 45 seconds.
If you find the legwork phase is dragging, it might mean that the MC is not giving enough information after each roll.
If planning is a bane, I wonder if you could use the Blades in the Dark approach – maybe have a flashback to come up with a detail the characters had previously arranged, in return to filling in the legwork clock – of course I want to play the Sprawl first, before I start hacking it! 🙂
If planning is a bane, I wonder if you could use the Blades in the Dark approach – maybe have a flashback to come up with a detail the characters had previously arranged, in return to filling in the legwork clock – of course I want to play the Sprawl first, before I start hacking it! 🙂
Yup! I mention that briefly in the book, Donogh McCarthy. I’m writing a mission for the Mission Files book that will illustrate how that approach might work in detail.
Yup! I mention that briefly in the book, Donogh McCarthy. I’m writing a mission for the Mission Files book that will illustrate how that approach might work in detail.
Donogh McCarthy I distinctly remember playing it that way. We essentially used Intel and Gear as a chance to do BitD-style flashback planning. I can’t recall if the text says to use them that way, or if we just landed there because it seemed like a good move, but it worked great!
Donogh McCarthy I distinctly remember playing it that way. We essentially used Intel and Gear as a chance to do BitD-style flashback planning. I can’t recall if the text says to use them that way, or if we just landed there because it seemed like a good move, but it worked great!
Ohhh that makes sense and would pick up the pacing a lot for sure.
Ohhh that makes sense and would pick up the pacing a lot for sure.
The whole point of Intel and Gear is to reduce the “need” to come up with a “perfect” plan for every contingency: the analysis paralysis point of mission/heist games.
The whole point of Intel and Gear is to reduce the “need” to come up with a “perfect” plan for every contingency: the analysis paralysis point of mission/heist games.
Happy as can be to see the podcast continue to include a bit of OSR gaming in the mix. I hate the toxicity of the “storygame vs OSR” attitude you find in some other communities.
Happy as can be to see the podcast continue to include a bit of OSR gaming in the mix. I hate the toxicity of the “storygame vs OSR” attitude you find in some other communities.
It’s such a false dichotomy as well!
It’s such a false dichotomy as well!
All men must die is on drivethru it turns out!
drivethrurpg.com – DriveThruRPG.com
All men must die is on drivethru it turns out!
drivethrurpg.com – DriveThruRPG.com
Thanks for all you folks’ comments! It boggles the mind that people could be put in a huff by such gracious and constructive criticism – it’s all really helpful feedback and has given me a lot to think about.
I’m really interested in Godbound – the sheer power level it promises sounds very fun, though it sounds like it could require GMs to be fast on their feet when PCs can do pretty much anything they put their mind to. Definitely not what I would expect from an old-school D&D origin!
Thanks for all you folks’ comments! It boggles the mind that people could be put in a huff by such gracious and constructive criticism – it’s all really helpful feedback and has given me a lot to think about.
I’m really interested in Godbound – the sheer power level it promises sounds very fun, though it sounds like it could require GMs to be fast on their feet when PCs can do pretty much anything they put their mind to. Definitely not what I would expect from an old-school D&D origin!
I’m in the middle of listening still but I’ve already heard some thought-provoking stuff. I liked Richard Rogers’ comment about keeping players involved (giving them choices) on a 7-9 marginal success. Conversely, I think that’s why I don’t like it when moves define the 6-, because it feels like a preemption of the GM’s ability to throw a hard move (in addition to just not succeeding).
I also enjoyed the discussion about how some PbtA games may suffer from lack of a viewpoint. I totally agree. (Though I would kind of expand that to all games; it’s just that it’s probably felt more in the PbtA design world.) I want the game to be “about” something. And “about” doesn’t mean the genre. E.g. don’t make a game about cyberpunk, make a cyberpunk game about being caught between corporate superpowers.
I’m in the middle of listening still but I’ve already heard some thought-provoking stuff. I liked Richard Rogers’ comment about keeping players involved (giving them choices) on a 7-9 marginal success. Conversely, I think that’s why I don’t like it when moves define the 6-, because it feels like a preemption of the GM’s ability to throw a hard move (in addition to just not succeeding).
I also enjoyed the discussion about how some PbtA games may suffer from lack of a viewpoint. I totally agree. (Though I would kind of expand that to all games; it’s just that it’s probably felt more in the PbtA design world.) I want the game to be “about” something. And “about” doesn’t mean the genre. E.g. don’t make a game about cyberpunk, make a cyberpunk game about being caught between corporate superpowers.
Fraser Simons I’ve GMed a few games of Godbound and it isn’t much like diceless Nobilis. It is more of a classless D&D-inspired game where the feats are godlike powers that allow players to kick the setting in the teeth.
Rather than hitpoints of damage, the characters do hit DICE of damage, allowing you to use old school Monster Manual critters as bad guys and go through hordes of regular humans, killing an average human in a back-handed swipe. In one of the first games I ran with a group, the players fought an Efreet, an angel and put a Tarrasque to sleep.
githyankidiaspora.wordpress.com – Godbound: Pantheon in Vissio
Good times.
Fraser Simons I’ve GMed a few games of Godbound and it isn’t much like diceless Nobilis. It is more of a classless D&D-inspired game where the feats are godlike powers that allow players to kick the setting in the teeth.
Rather than hitpoints of damage, the characters do hit DICE of damage, allowing you to use old school Monster Manual critters as bad guys and go through hordes of regular humans, killing an average human in a back-handed swipe. In one of the first games I ran with a group, the players fought an Efreet, an angel and put a Tarrasque to sleep.
githyankidiaspora.wordpress.com – Godbound: Pantheon in Vissio
Good times.
Huh! That sounds pretty cool! I just meant that both are games where you have powers of a god, or Demi God. I’d like to try both at some point.
Huh! That sounds pretty cool! I just meant that both are games where you have powers of a god, or Demi God. I’d like to try both at some point.
Sorry, just wanted to make it clear that they are very different takes on a godling theme.
One of my favorite parts of Godbound are the charts and tables for GM’s to quickly and easily create unstable courts in conflict and other D&Dish stuff (Ruins, magic items, monster lairs, etc).
Sorry, just wanted to make it clear that they are very different takes on a godling theme.
One of my favorite parts of Godbound are the charts and tables for GM’s to quickly and easily create unstable courts in conflict and other D&Dish stuff (Ruins, magic items, monster lairs, etc).
Ray Otus Thanks for mentioning that bit about 7-9 and player engagement, it’s a really sweet spot for me.
On your point about a 6- being left open, I generally agree that it’s nice to let the MC decide their hard move. However, I’ve seen some custom moves with a 6- descriptor that I like because it defines a narrower risk or piece of the world, and if built well can speed up a game and keep the move’s results in context.
Ray Otus Thanks for mentioning that bit about 7-9 and player engagement, it’s a really sweet spot for me.
On your point about a 6- being left open, I generally agree that it’s nice to let the MC decide their hard move. However, I’ve seen some custom moves with a 6- descriptor that I like because it defines a narrower risk or piece of the world, and if built well can speed up a game and keep the move’s results in context.
Fraser Simons I’ll GM Godbound at some point if you want to try it via hangouts.
Fraser Simons I’ll GM Godbound at some point if you want to try it via hangouts.
Yep Richard Rogers. My take is the dividing line between success and failure in PbtA is about player vs. GM control to some extent. So it makes sense to keep players involved in choosing what increments of achievement or which various negative things happen to them on a partial success. On a fail, a defined 6- can be good, but it kind of precludes a GM hard move (or maybe it doesn’t, but then you feel like you are double-hosing a player/character). My rule is that if the move could be triggered multiple times in a session, don’t write the 6- unless it would be interesting if it fired multiple times. Most of the time visiting that same 6- result more than once would be boring though, and it’s better for the designer to trust the GM to think dangerously on her own.
Yep Richard Rogers. My take is the dividing line between success and failure in PbtA is about player vs. GM control to some extent. So it makes sense to keep players involved in choosing what increments of achievement or which various negative things happen to them on a partial success. On a fail, a defined 6- can be good, but it kind of precludes a GM hard move (or maybe it doesn’t, but then you feel like you are double-hosing a player/character). My rule is that if the move could be triggered multiple times in a session, don’t write the 6- unless it would be interesting if it fired multiple times. Most of the time visiting that same 6- result more than once would be boring though, and it’s better for the designer to trust the GM to think dangerously on her own.
I agree with you, Ray Otus.
My custom move idea with a built-in 6- would need to be rarely used. Good point about that.
I agree with you, Ray Otus.
My custom move idea with a built-in 6- would need to be rarely used. Good point about that.
I agree about the 6-, in some rare cases I have done moves where I say, in addition to what the MC says X. Mostly in moves where the MC could make the outcome of it too boring, or unintentionally strip some agency from the player when they’re doing “their thing”. That way, I remind the MC that they should push the fiction forward but also make it something that does not strip the player of the thing they’re supposed to be doing or be very good at.
I agree about the 6-, in some rare cases I have done moves where I say, in addition to what the MC says X. Mostly in moves where the MC could make the outcome of it too boring, or unintentionally strip some agency from the player when they’re doing “their thing”. That way, I remind the MC that they should push the fiction forward but also make it something that does not strip the player of the thing they’re supposed to be doing or be very good at.
Judd Karlman would love to, I’ve got the free version!
Judd Karlman would love to, I’ve got the free version!
Hamish Cameron Lowell Francis Since I MC’ed this, (AND I LOVE THIS GAME TO DEATH) I just wanted to say… I don’t like to skimp on the Legwork. That may just be a Danny thing.
This is MC preference, not a conclusive reflection of The Sprawl. Certainly as a One-Shot, a lot of things can be shortened, but I set up the game as a two-shot to give the players : A Character and Corporation creation/discussion, a decent legwork phase, a layered action phase, an epilogue, and a game discussion.
I don’t like to let the legwork “drag,” and I hope I didn’t do that. HOWEVER, it is during the Legwork where a a different side of the characterization/roleplay happens, because the action phase is rather fast-paced and will display different aspects of a given character. Also, some playbooks flourish in the legwork phase (Hunter, Reporter).
Also, some good legwork phase helps me as the MC discover different ways to make the action phase more exciting and incorporate more threads into the story, while hitting characters’ directives.
If the session does get brought up on the podcast again, hopefully this provides an insight into why the game was paced the way it was. 🙂
Hamish Cameron Lowell Francis Since I MC’ed this, (AND I LOVE THIS GAME TO DEATH) I just wanted to say… I don’t like to skimp on the Legwork. That may just be a Danny thing.
This is MC preference, not a conclusive reflection of The Sprawl. Certainly as a One-Shot, a lot of things can be shortened, but I set up the game as a two-shot to give the players : A Character and Corporation creation/discussion, a decent legwork phase, a layered action phase, an epilogue, and a game discussion.
I don’t like to let the legwork “drag,” and I hope I didn’t do that. HOWEVER, it is during the Legwork where a a different side of the characterization/roleplay happens, because the action phase is rather fast-paced and will display different aspects of a given character. Also, some playbooks flourish in the legwork phase (Hunter, Reporter).
Also, some good legwork phase helps me as the MC discover different ways to make the action phase more exciting and incorporate more threads into the story, while hitting characters’ directives.
If the session does get brought up on the podcast again, hopefully this provides an insight into why the game was paced the way it was. 🙂
Daniel Lugo you’re absolutely right about the Legwork Phase showcasing different aspects of characters and especially different playbooks. The makeup of a given group (both in playbooks and player preference) is a critical consideration to the focus you give to different parts of the game.
Daniel Lugo you’re absolutely right about the Legwork Phase showcasing different aspects of characters and especially different playbooks. The makeup of a given group (both in playbooks and player preference) is a critical consideration to the focus you give to different parts of the game.
I enjoyed the chat. Uncharted Worlds is a favourite of mine, so it was good to get your views on it. I never felt the lack of a move during our game and agree that printing out the Abilities is a quick and convenient way of keeping on top of what you are especially good at.
I’d suggest that there is a PbtA game that is covering similar territory: Impulse Drive (drivethrurpg.com – Impulse Drive Preview). It runs closer to pure AW with tight playbooks. Check it. 🙂
I enjoyed the chat. Uncharted Worlds is a favourite of mine, so it was good to get your views on it. I never felt the lack of a move during our game and agree that printing out the Abilities is a quick and convenient way of keeping on top of what you are especially good at.
I’d suggest that there is a PbtA game that is covering similar territory: Impulse Drive (drivethrurpg.com – Impulse Drive Preview). It runs closer to pure AW with tight playbooks. Check it. 🙂
Fraser Simons Does this Friday evening work for you for some Godbound?
Fraser Simons Does this Friday evening work for you for some Godbound?
Judd Karlman yep! That should work just fine actually!
Judd Karlman yep! That should work just fine actually!
Rich & Co, thanks for the detailed review of Uncharted Worlds! Very timely for me, as my group was just about to go looking for a PbtA space-opera system, and Uncharted sounds perfect. So, I’ve picked it up via DriveThru’s big PbtA sale. Reading it now!
We might try writing some 7-9 options, once we have started defining our sub-genre and setting.
Rich & Co, thanks for the detailed review of Uncharted Worlds! Very timely for me, as my group was just about to go looking for a PbtA space-opera system, and Uncharted sounds perfect. So, I’ve picked it up via DriveThru’s big PbtA sale. Reading it now!
We might try writing some 7-9 options, once we have started defining our sub-genre and setting.