Is he just talking to himself?
Some of the most interesting moves in Dungeon World and other traditional fantasy games are those that allow you to converse with weird things. Dungeons are not generally populated with helpful and informed NPCs to explain what is going on or give secret information. They are populated with rocks, animals, dead bodies and possibly other things that most people do not normally interrogate. Giving your character the ability to converse with other things opens a new dimension to almost any environment. It’s always interesting and almost always useful. Its also something that a GM just can’t be prepared for.
What I want to know is how you prefer to act these rolls? The dead should probably act like people but the others are a little harder. Is that mouse a tiny vermin that might communicate in impressions weighted on a scale of fear and plunder? Or is it a tiny furry human with a culture and language just as expressive as the character’s? Can that stone point you in the right direction or does it only understand concepts like falling, rolling, weight, age, hardness, breaking and shaping. A person-like entity is probably easier to role play but a limited/alien intelligence is probably less game breaking. It’s hard to say which is more interesting as it can be fun to see how an inanimate object or animal views the world and it can also be fun to glimpse its secret culture.
What do you guys think? Have any good examples? What does it generally look like on screen? If you like the non-human approach do you also make the dead strange? And how?
Oooh, I think we’ll talk about this on DR today.
Oooh, I think we’ll talk about this on DR today.
It’s been some time, but you might get some inspiration from the Xanth series as one of the main characters abilities is to talk to inanimate objects. His name is Dor. “Magician Dor, is the son of Bink and Chameleon. He served as king pro-tem during Trent’s reign. Dor is able to make inanimate objects, such as rocks, clouds, water, and bones, speak.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_Roogna
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centaur_Aisle
It’s been some time, but you might get some inspiration from the Xanth series as one of the main characters abilities is to talk to inanimate objects. His name is Dor. “Magician Dor, is the son of Bink and Chameleon. He served as king pro-tem during Trent’s reign. Dor is able to make inanimate objects, such as rocks, clouds, water, and bones, speak.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_Roogna
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centaur_Aisle
This came up recently in a DW Play-by-post game I’m running. The party was in some underground caverns where there were ongoing skirmishes between dwarven mercs and salamander resistance fighting their occupation. An evil necromancer had holed up in the caverns and was in possession of this magic straight razor (which I think will be in the upcoming Blood Issue of the Codex) — the very item the party was looking for, but they didn’t know anything about a necromancer. They came to a fork in the tunnel. Unbeknownst to the them, one path led to a nesting cave-room of some ghoul rats that the Necromancer had made, and secret door to his part of the cave system. The Necromancer was abducting the mercs and salamanders throughout the tunnels, experimenting on them, and feeding them to his undead pets. The magic Razor would answer any written question using blood it had spilled, so the Necromancer was horribly scarred from using the razor over and over and over.
The cleric in the party, who was dwarven, decided to use his special racial spell One with Stones to talk to the rocks to see if he could get some clues as to which fork to take. He Cast a Spell and rolled a 12, and narrated this:
“I glance down at my feet and see a smooth stone in the passage. I scoop it up gently and coddle it in my palms. As I squeeze a little warmth into its wetness, I whisper to it as only dwarves can. I ask it who has last been here before us. I ask what lies beyond the passage. And I ask it what deed of Urfílga [his goddess] I can perform on its behalf. I listen carefully for its wisdom.”
Thankfully, it was play-by-post, so I could take a little time to figure out what rocks would say, how they would communicate to him, and so forth, so I definitely get why you ask this question. Here’s how I responded:
Bjarte the Broken, only you can hear the obsidian stone crying out.
“scurry-scurry-always-hungry; scars-brings-meat; sanctify-desolation-seek-guidance”
The stone keeps crying these words out over and over, and not listening to any instruction to cease. The last time you spoke to the stones, how did you get them to stop talking?
This came up recently in a DW Play-by-post game I’m running. The party was in some underground caverns where there were ongoing skirmishes between dwarven mercs and salamander resistance fighting their occupation. An evil necromancer had holed up in the caverns and was in possession of this magic straight razor (which I think will be in the upcoming Blood Issue of the Codex) — the very item the party was looking for, but they didn’t know anything about a necromancer. They came to a fork in the tunnel. Unbeknownst to the them, one path led to a nesting cave-room of some ghoul rats that the Necromancer had made, and secret door to his part of the cave system. The Necromancer was abducting the mercs and salamanders throughout the tunnels, experimenting on them, and feeding them to his undead pets. The magic Razor would answer any written question using blood it had spilled, so the Necromancer was horribly scarred from using the razor over and over and over.
The cleric in the party, who was dwarven, decided to use his special racial spell One with Stones to talk to the rocks to see if he could get some clues as to which fork to take. He Cast a Spell and rolled a 12, and narrated this:
“I glance down at my feet and see a smooth stone in the passage. I scoop it up gently and coddle it in my palms. As I squeeze a little warmth into its wetness, I whisper to it as only dwarves can. I ask it who has last been here before us. I ask what lies beyond the passage. And I ask it what deed of Urfílga [his goddess] I can perform on its behalf. I listen carefully for its wisdom.”
Thankfully, it was play-by-post, so I could take a little time to figure out what rocks would say, how they would communicate to him, and so forth, so I definitely get why you ask this question. Here’s how I responded:
Bjarte the Broken, only you can hear the obsidian stone crying out.
“scurry-scurry-always-hungry; scars-brings-meat; sanctify-desolation-seek-guidance”
The stone keeps crying these words out over and over, and not listening to any instruction to cease. The last time you spoke to the stones, how did you get them to stop talking?
Timothy Bennett nice. I always like the idea that on a 6- you can’t stop hearing the voices. imagine how noisy it might get… assuming the near by stones have anything to say… Do you think he could talk to the cave as an entity? or a community?
Timothy Bennett nice. I always like the idea that on a 6- you can’t stop hearing the voices. imagine how noisy it might get… assuming the near by stones have anything to say… Do you think he could talk to the cave as an entity? or a community?
I tend to play “lesser” creatures (those not normally considered sentient) as simpler than humans. They think along the lines of instincts, the lower levels of Maslow’s Heirarchy of Needs: food, shelter, safety. reproduce. Rocks are even more fun. What is their concept of number? Of time? If you ask a rock if any goblins passed by recently, it may say, “Yes, quite recently!” but how recent was that? It could be years! The rocks in a dungeon may not have seen the sun in millennia, or even aeons. What concept will they have of how many days or hours it’s been since something passed by. They are focused on pressure, tectonics, and where rocks are or are not, and perhaps mining. I’m looking forward to hearing what you guys have to say about this on DR today, Jason Cordova
I tend to play “lesser” creatures (those not normally considered sentient) as simpler than humans. They think along the lines of instincts, the lower levels of Maslow’s Heirarchy of Needs: food, shelter, safety. reproduce. Rocks are even more fun. What is their concept of number? Of time? If you ask a rock if any goblins passed by recently, it may say, “Yes, quite recently!” but how recent was that? It could be years! The rocks in a dungeon may not have seen the sun in millennia, or even aeons. What concept will they have of how many days or hours it’s been since something passed by. They are focused on pressure, tectonics, and where rocks are or are not, and perhaps mining. I’m looking forward to hearing what you guys have to say about this on DR today, Jason Cordova
Edward Hickcox We end up saying very little, actually, except to point people here. We’re pretty interested in what the community has to say on this one.
Edward Hickcox We end up saying very little, actually, except to point people here. We’re pretty interested in what the community has to say on this one.
One of the principals of DW is to portray a fantastic world. I take that to mean rocks and other non sentient things can talk under the right fantastical situations.
One of the principals of DW is to portray a fantastic world. I take that to mean rocks and other non sentient things can talk under the right fantastical situations.
Daniel Fowler my rocks wouldn’t shut up even on a roll of 12. The way I figured it, no one had ever talked to this rock, so it wasn’t going to go quietly in the night.
Daniel Fowler my rocks wouldn’t shut up even on a roll of 12. The way I figured it, no one had ever talked to this rock, so it wasn’t going to go quietly in the night.
This brings me back to my old D&D days, with Speak With Dead, Stone, Animals, Plants, etc. spells. Non-sentient “beings” have alien concepts of such things as time, place, environment, others, and even self.
A stone exists for millennia – it can’t perceive such fleeting concepts as decades (or smaller units of time), individual beings and their movements, temperature (unless such heat can alter or harm them), or individuality. Indeed, if a stone is broken, it continues to exist as two (or more) stones. Does each piece share its “ancestors'” memories? Or is it “born anew?” Mortals such as us may never know.
So, when we fleeting, mobile, soft creatures communicate with such a thing, there is little in common to touch upon. Edward Hickcox is quite right that a rock may say “quite recently” when it means years, or even decades ago!
Still, a successful roll should yield informative, or even helpful answers. The trick lies in the player character discerning the common ground.
This brings me back to my old D&D days, with Speak With Dead, Stone, Animals, Plants, etc. spells. Non-sentient “beings” have alien concepts of such things as time, place, environment, others, and even self.
A stone exists for millennia – it can’t perceive such fleeting concepts as decades (or smaller units of time), individual beings and their movements, temperature (unless such heat can alter or harm them), or individuality. Indeed, if a stone is broken, it continues to exist as two (or more) stones. Does each piece share its “ancestors'” memories? Or is it “born anew?” Mortals such as us may never know.
So, when we fleeting, mobile, soft creatures communicate with such a thing, there is little in common to touch upon. Edward Hickcox is quite right that a rock may say “quite recently” when it means years, or even decades ago!
Still, a successful roll should yield informative, or even helpful answers. The trick lies in the player character discerning the common ground.
I haven’t run Dungeon World, but in other games that have this I have whatever thing they’re talking to be obsessed in things the PCs are completely uninterested in, and have really far out there concepts. So rocks will have a sense of time in millions of years being “recent”, and a mouse will be generally terrified of everything. I also emphasize whatever sense an animal is really focused on being how they describe things.
I haven’t run Dungeon World, but in other games that have this I have whatever thing they’re talking to be obsessed in things the PCs are completely uninterested in, and have really far out there concepts. So rocks will have a sense of time in millions of years being “recent”, and a mouse will be generally terrified of everything. I also emphasize whatever sense an animal is really focused on being how they describe things.
Joshua Hillerup My friend once told me of a game he ran in which a ranger cast Speak With Animals on a squirrel. The ranger asked the squirrel if any giants had passed through the area, and where they they had gone. Cue the conversation on “what is giants” (which to a squirrel are little different from humans), what is direction (toward the BIG tree! WHAT big tree? THE big tree!), and then the squirrel asking for compensation (Got any nuts?).
It wasn’t helpful at all. Of course, he may have been a little TOO restrictive in the spell’s utility, but the example stands.
Joshua Hillerup My friend once told me of a game he ran in which a ranger cast Speak With Animals on a squirrel. The ranger asked the squirrel if any giants had passed through the area, and where they they had gone. Cue the conversation on “what is giants” (which to a squirrel are little different from humans), what is direction (toward the BIG tree! WHAT big tree? THE big tree!), and then the squirrel asking for compensation (Got any nuts?).
It wasn’t helpful at all. Of course, he may have been a little TOO restrictive in the spell’s utility, but the example stands.
IMO these are the fundamental differences in trad games and DW. In trad games, speak with … Is an opportunity for the DM to play a game with the game. In DW I want use the opportunity to push the action along. I’m thinking cinematically. If Gandalf talked to a squirrel what would happen? It would push the story along in fantastical ways. Not embroil the players in a puzzle they spend hours sorting through or it just being a waste of a spell. Speak with Stones gives me an opportunity to create a great cinematic moment with the player and be a fan of the spell/power/racial thing they have.
IMO these are the fundamental differences in trad games and DW. In trad games, speak with … Is an opportunity for the DM to play a game with the game. In DW I want use the opportunity to push the action along. I’m thinking cinematically. If Gandalf talked to a squirrel what would happen? It would push the story along in fantastical ways. Not embroil the players in a puzzle they spend hours sorting through or it just being a waste of a spell. Speak with Stones gives me an opportunity to create a great cinematic moment with the player and be a fan of the spell/power/racial thing they have.
I also love the moment where the character has to justify to the party how they just got whatever information they got. “The rocks told me” “you mean they were scattered in a way that seemed to indicate it?” “Sure… Something like that”
I also love the moment where the character has to justify to the party how they just got whatever information they got. “The rocks told me” “you mean they were scattered in a way that seemed to indicate it?” “Sure… Something like that”
Mark Perotti , Timothy Bennett : I think we can all agree that the goal to these scenes should not be to give the characters a hard time. It would be acceptable to say “the rock somehow tells you which way they went” and move on. Its just much better to add some flavor to it and encourage the players to consider the nature of the fantasy world.
It also seems that most of us agree that the alien intelligence is more fun then the human-like intelligence. This is my usual approach as well.
Consider however the scene where the druid says a special word and the mouse suddenly stands up and speaks to the whole party! then it leads them to where they want to go through a previously unknown and unaccessible mouse-city tunnel. think Alice in wonderland meets the jungle book.
maybe the act of casting the spell causes a human-like intelligence to inhabit the stone. it gains a face, maybe limbs, and maybe even becomes a short lived NPC.
In a made up magical fantasy land no approach makes more sense then another. its all about style and fun.
Mark Perotti , Timothy Bennett : I think we can all agree that the goal to these scenes should not be to give the characters a hard time. It would be acceptable to say “the rock somehow tells you which way they went” and move on. Its just much better to add some flavor to it and encourage the players to consider the nature of the fantasy world.
It also seems that most of us agree that the alien intelligence is more fun then the human-like intelligence. This is my usual approach as well.
Consider however the scene where the druid says a special word and the mouse suddenly stands up and speaks to the whole party! then it leads them to where they want to go through a previously unknown and unaccessible mouse-city tunnel. think Alice in wonderland meets the jungle book.
maybe the act of casting the spell causes a human-like intelligence to inhabit the stone. it gains a face, maybe limbs, and maybe even becomes a short lived NPC.
In a made up magical fantasy land no approach makes more sense then another. its all about style and fun.
I tend to make things have a different perspective from humans as well. But then again I never have had anyone speak with inanimate objects. The animals have had some humorous conversations though. I tend to make horses really dumb for some reason, always asking for carrots and saying “I like carrots” constantly. A whale the party helped talked like Dory when she speaks whale. It was beached and was saying some pretty depressing stuff too, but with the way it talked it was less somber than it should have been. My wife’s wolf companion constantly comments on smells and asks if she wants him to bite things and her other companion, a creature we call a Qinling, makes small comments from within the saddlebag of her wolf. When the wolf runs she just hears “Fast!” from the bag. When they got out of a river she heard “Wet!”. When she engages in direct conversation with it the Qinling it almost always asks for something shiny in return.
I tend to make things have a different perspective from humans as well. But then again I never have had anyone speak with inanimate objects. The animals have had some humorous conversations though. I tend to make horses really dumb for some reason, always asking for carrots and saying “I like carrots” constantly. A whale the party helped talked like Dory when she speaks whale. It was beached and was saying some pretty depressing stuff too, but with the way it talked it was less somber than it should have been. My wife’s wolf companion constantly comments on smells and asks if she wants him to bite things and her other companion, a creature we call a Qinling, makes small comments from within the saddlebag of her wolf. When the wolf runs she just hears “Fast!” from the bag. When they got out of a river she heard “Wet!”. When she engages in direct conversation with it the Qinling it almost always asks for something shiny in return.
Wow. Reading the OP, I had this flash of brilliance/idiocy.
DW character speaks with a mouse.
Sometime in the future, the game group decides to play Mouse Guard – picking up EXACTLY in the moments after the character spoke with the mouse – but following the mouse’s party’s adventures.
Would be especially good if there was a PbtA version of Mouse Guard.
Wow. Reading the OP, I had this flash of brilliance/idiocy.
DW character speaks with a mouse.
Sometime in the future, the game group decides to play Mouse Guard – picking up EXACTLY in the moments after the character spoke with the mouse – but following the mouse’s party’s adventures.
Would be especially good if there was a PbtA version of Mouse Guard.
And following above, could do the same with the Warren I suppose…
And following above, could do the same with the Warren I suppose…
Chris Shorb There actually is a PbtA Mouse Guard (though unofficial). I played it yesterday, coincidentally.
Chris Shorb There actually is a PbtA Mouse Guard (though unofficial). I played it yesterday, coincidentally.
maybe he is a high level mouse druid with the talk to humans ability.
maybe he is a high level mouse druid with the talk to humans ability.