Episode 32 of The Gauntlet Podcast is out today. This one has a pleasantly internal focus, which makes it a nice break from our designer-focused episodes of late.
Our main topic is inspired by the article found here:
http://leavingmundania.com/2015/11/03/the-good-roleplayer-doesnt-exist-and-must-die/
I’d like to hear what people think about this article in the comments.
Games discussed:
Brendan Conway’s Masks
Evil Hat Productions’s Dresden Files FAE
Lamentations of the Flame Princess
Star Wars D6
Jason Lutes’s Funnel World
Meguey Baker’s Wishing Games
In Production
Play by Post games
Joshua Fox’s Fiasco playset House of Ill-Repute
Lady Blackbird
Monster of the Week
Marshall Miller’s The Warren
Community Feedback post:
https://plus.google.com/108530078404383929502/posts/fwEAVyMxBCj
http://gauntletpodcast.libsyn.com/episode-32-the-good-roleplayer-must-die
I think the distinction you made, Jason, is a vital one. In the original article, the author has a very specific definition of the Good Roleplayer in mind, and her article makes a very good point. If the term means that the roleplayer has a preconceived notion that they already know how to play, then they’re not open to learning new things, new skills, new ways to play. That’s bad.
OTOH, I think Rob Donoghue may have taken the more loose term of good roleplayer. Yeah, I think there are qualities that make you a good roleplayer: someone who engages with the game, and with others, who shares the spotlight, who actively engages with and supports other players, who makes an effort to learn the rules, etc… THAT is something I think all of us can look to as a goal that we can strive to achieve.
EDIT: Oh, and what you said also: A good player approaches the game in the spirit of the game. I would add that a good player also involves engaging the mechanics and learning the systems, so that play can flow more smoothly.
I think the distinction you made, Jason, is a vital one. In the original article, the author has a very specific definition of the Good Roleplayer in mind, and her article makes a very good point. If the term means that the roleplayer has a preconceived notion that they already know how to play, then they’re not open to learning new things, new skills, new ways to play. That’s bad.
OTOH, I think Rob Donoghue may have taken the more loose term of good roleplayer. Yeah, I think there are qualities that make you a good roleplayer: someone who engages with the game, and with others, who shares the spotlight, who actively engages with and supports other players, who makes an effort to learn the rules, etc… THAT is something I think all of us can look to as a goal that we can strive to achieve.
EDIT: Oh, and what you said also: A good player approaches the game in the spirit of the game. I would add that a good player also involves engaging the mechanics and learning the systems, so that play can flow more smoothly.
Eloy Cintron Playing in the spirit of the game is so important. Those ultimate frisbee weirdos (Derek Grimm is one) have a philosophy called ‘the Spirit of the Game,’ which is a set of good sportsmanship principles that, when followed, allow the game to be entirely self-refereed. RPGs can benefit from similar thinking. You’re going to get the best outcomes at the table if everyone is doing their part. It means: maintaining tone; trying not to break the system just for the sake of doing so; following any rituals the game may have; and, above all, keeping the fiction aimed at the kinds of things the game has written on the tin.
Eloy Cintron Playing in the spirit of the game is so important. Those ultimate frisbee weirdos (Derek Grimm is one) have a philosophy called ‘the Spirit of the Game,’ which is a set of good sportsmanship principles that, when followed, allow the game to be entirely self-refereed. RPGs can benefit from similar thinking. You’re going to get the best outcomes at the table if everyone is doing their part. It means: maintaining tone; trying not to break the system just for the sake of doing so; following any rituals the game may have; and, above all, keeping the fiction aimed at the kinds of things the game has written on the tin.
If we say there is no such thing as a Good Roleplayer, does it also then lead to the conclusion there is no such thing as a Bad Roleplayer?
Having played not only with The Gauntlet, but other groups previously, I want to say that there is such as thing as Good Roleplayer. But the more I look at it, I think what I’m really talking about is a Good Player. The people that you almost always want at your table, because you know they will add to the story, even if it is a new system and they will stumble over the rules, or a genre they are unfamilar with. I wonder if we sometimes try to term someone as “skillful” in roleplaying when we mean that they are fair, or adaptable gamers. Someone who we can count on to contribute to the richness of play.
If we say there is no such thing as a Good Roleplayer, does it also then lead to the conclusion there is no such thing as a Bad Roleplayer?
Having played not only with The Gauntlet, but other groups previously, I want to say that there is such as thing as Good Roleplayer. But the more I look at it, I think what I’m really talking about is a Good Player. The people that you almost always want at your table, because you know they will add to the story, even if it is a new system and they will stumble over the rules, or a genre they are unfamilar with. I wonder if we sometimes try to term someone as “skillful” in roleplaying when we mean that they are fair, or adaptable gamers. Someone who we can count on to contribute to the richness of play.
it might be better to qualify a “Good Roleplayer” in negative statements. A good roll player does not…
try to hog the spotlight
take it personally when there character dies
get distracted
…
The set of what a “Good Roleplayer” does may be infinite.
it might be better to qualify a “Good Roleplayer” in negative statements. A good roll player does not…
try to hog the spotlight
take it personally when there character dies
get distracted
…
The set of what a “Good Roleplayer” does may be infinite.
At the risk of derailing… Richard Rogers mentioned PDQ# as a good alternative to Fate… would love some elaboration on this topic.
At the risk of derailing… Richard Rogers mentioned PDQ# as a good alternative to Fate… would love some elaboration on this topic.
I can talk about PDQ vs. Fate in a follow-up post, Eloy Cintron.
I can talk about PDQ vs. Fate in a follow-up post, Eloy Cintron.
Initial thoughts, to be edited with more thoughts as I keep listening: I LOVE how Richard Rogers outlined the concept of “post debt”. I know that feeling SO WELL. And it’s a really vicious cycle, where the more you rack up, the less willing you are to jump into it and erase some of that debt. Which incurs more debt. I love the idea of the newslettery things, they remind me a bit of Love Letters in terms of function.
EDIT: I’m obviously a little amused by the irony surrounding the discussion of an inflammatory post about the RPG community. I think one very important point in the post was the one that talked about putting the focus on “rockstar” roleplayers. I love it when Burning Wheel gives a reward to the “Workhorse” player, for example, because there’s only a certain type of player who gets noticed as a rockstar roleplayer, and that does tend to move the group away from cohesion if everyone is striving to be a good, standout roleplayer. My idealized RPG session is like a jam session: everyone has fluency in their instruments, but no one performance really stands out, because it’s all about passing the lead off from player to player, and lifting up the whole performance.
Initial thoughts, to be edited with more thoughts as I keep listening: I LOVE how Richard Rogers outlined the concept of “post debt”. I know that feeling SO WELL. And it’s a really vicious cycle, where the more you rack up, the less willing you are to jump into it and erase some of that debt. Which incurs more debt. I love the idea of the newslettery things, they remind me a bit of Love Letters in terms of function.
EDIT: I’m obviously a little amused by the irony surrounding the discussion of an inflammatory post about the RPG community. I think one very important point in the post was the one that talked about putting the focus on “rockstar” roleplayers. I love it when Burning Wheel gives a reward to the “Workhorse” player, for example, because there’s only a certain type of player who gets noticed as a rockstar roleplayer, and that does tend to move the group away from cohesion if everyone is striving to be a good, standout roleplayer. My idealized RPG session is like a jam session: everyone has fluency in their instruments, but no one performance really stands out, because it’s all about passing the lead off from player to player, and lifting up the whole performance.
yay! Glad you “get it”, Andy. I swear it accounts for lots of attrition in PBP.
yay! Glad you “get it”, Andy. I swear it accounts for lots of attrition in PBP.
Richard Rogers: It’s not something I’d always thought about consciously, but you put your finger directly on the problem. I’m pretty sure you’re totally on it there. Also explains why I have yet to finish a PBP…
Richard Rogers: It’s not something I’d always thought about consciously, but you put your finger directly on the problem. I’m pretty sure you’re totally on it there. Also explains why I have yet to finish a PBP…
Richard Rogers Andy Hauge I’ve come across PBP debt as well, though hadn’t thought about it as such. Once explained… yes, it certainly resonates. It’s interesting that Rich brings this up. I’m currently running a game of Swords Without Master as PBP. Given the procedural structure of the game, I am hoping to avoid debt. If anyone fails to post, the game just stops… which might be worse. I don’t know. 😀 (Though, given the nature of SWM, I don’t think it should be much of a problem, as posts may be shorter than in other systems.)
Richard Rogers Andy Hauge I’ve come across PBP debt as well, though hadn’t thought about it as such. Once explained… yes, it certainly resonates. It’s interesting that Rich brings this up. I’m currently running a game of Swords Without Master as PBP. Given the procedural structure of the game, I am hoping to avoid debt. If anyone fails to post, the game just stops… which might be worse. I don’t know. 😀 (Though, given the nature of SWM, I don’t think it should be much of a problem, as posts may be shorter than in other systems.)
It’s definitely more of a problem in games where a lot can happen, plot-wise.
It’s definitely more of a problem in games where a lot can happen, plot-wise.
I continue to enjoy the podcast (feels like an extended version of those post-game conversations). I don’t have anything constructive to add; just popped in to say: Jason Cordova, you’re not alone – I’m so sick of super hero movies.
I continue to enjoy the podcast (feels like an extended version of those post-game conversations). I don’t have anything constructive to add; just popped in to say: Jason Cordova, you’re not alone – I’m so sick of super hero movies.