Some dude over on the DW Tavern posted this game aid he uses, and it basically consists of a menu of plot kickers. It looks perfectly functional, but one of the options is “Lady Luck is a fickle bitch.” Am I the only one who finds that a little offensive? Not, like, clutching my pearls offensive, but just kind of off-putting? I’m sure homeboy didn’t mean any harm by it, but it just comes off a little misogynistic to me.
Some dude over on the DW Tavern posted this game aid he uses, and it basically consists of a menu of plot kickers.
Some dude over on the DW Tavern posted this game aid he uses, and it basically consists of a menu of plot kickers.
I must be fully jaded because it seems rather benign to me. Lady Luck can indeed be fickle. There are times when my luck has gone such that I’d be happy to throw in further expletives 🙂
I must be fully jaded because it seems rather benign to me. Lady Luck can indeed be fickle. There are times when my luck has gone such that I’d be happy to throw in further expletives 🙂
isn’t the whole term “lady luck” like that though?
isn’t the whole term “lady luck” like that though?
Agreed. There are several non-gendered ways to emphatically and humorously say that the luck isn’t going one’s way…
“Bad luck of the draw sucka”
“Sadly Fortune ain’t smiling on you”
“The only sure thing about luck is that it will change.”
Agreed. There are several non-gendered ways to emphatically and humorously say that the luck isn’t going one’s way…
“Bad luck of the draw sucka”
“Sadly Fortune ain’t smiling on you”
“The only sure thing about luck is that it will change.”
Sean Smith I think its “benign-ness” is what bothers me. Anyone who games with me knows I love bawdiness and characters who are stupidly, over-the-top sexualized (see: Priscilla the Glorious). But I always do it in a way that is so goofy/campy it’s hard to get offended. In other words, I do it with a wink. But this statement, “Lady Luck is a fickle bitch,” is thrown in there so casually, it feels more…real, I guess? Or, I should say, it speaks to the sort-of everyday, casual sexism people get away with.
Sean Smith I think its “benign-ness” is what bothers me. Anyone who games with me knows I love bawdiness and characters who are stupidly, over-the-top sexualized (see: Priscilla the Glorious). But I always do it in a way that is so goofy/campy it’s hard to get offended. In other words, I do it with a wink. But this statement, “Lady Luck is a fickle bitch,” is thrown in there so casually, it feels more…real, I guess? Or, I should say, it speaks to the sort-of everyday, casual sexism people get away with.
i catch myself saying stupid things like that, some times /facepalm
i catch myself saying stupid things like that, some times /facepalm
It’s a baked-in sexism that our language & culture have carried on for so long that no one really notices until it’s pointed out I assume. On first glance it bugged me because it just didn’t roll off the tongue right. Hopefully the replacement suggestion will work a lot better.
It’s a baked-in sexism that our language & culture have carried on for so long that no one really notices until it’s pointed out I assume. On first glance it bugged me because it just didn’t roll off the tongue right. Hopefully the replacement suggestion will work a lot better.
Ferrell Riley I just saw your convo with the guy who posted. Very well-handled.
Ferrell Riley I just saw your convo with the guy who posted. Very well-handled.
Thanks. It is concerning that no one brought that point up considering it was a group project apparently, but as stated before, casual sexism is insidious and usually only caught on the look back.
Thanks. It is concerning that no one brought that point up considering it was a group project apparently, but as stated before, casual sexism is insidious and usually only caught on the look back.
Excellent points. I agree the sentiment could be brought forward in a better light. I share a house with 3 females so I don’t tend to think in misogynistic ways. Probably why I’m more prone to overlook it. I have a house of strong empowered women that would find the term amusing.
Excellent points. I agree the sentiment could be brought forward in a better light. I share a house with 3 females so I don’t tend to think in misogynistic ways. Probably why I’m more prone to overlook it. I have a house of strong empowered women that would find the term amusing.
Eddy Gonzalez Me too. It happens. But I try to police myself.
Eddy Gonzalez Me too. It happens. But I try to police myself.
Sean Smith it’s all about context — like anything in humor. I’m all for a household of strong empowered feminist woman rattling off how much a bitch lady luck is or whatever. That’s entirely different than some dude codifying the same thing written down. The former is likely done by a woman with a eye roll and knowing nod towards it’s misogynist roots. The latter is done more with a the classic terrible male comedian using stereotypes of woman for a laugh aka “Women? Can’t live with them…” This is especially true in the gamer space which is usually male-centric and has historically tended towards rather insulting gender roles. As reference, I note the original D&D random Harlot’s table: http://gadgets.boingboing.net/gimages/random_harlot_table.jpg
Sean Smith it’s all about context — like anything in humor. I’m all for a household of strong empowered feminist woman rattling off how much a bitch lady luck is or whatever. That’s entirely different than some dude codifying the same thing written down. The former is likely done by a woman with a eye roll and knowing nod towards it’s misogynist roots. The latter is done more with a the classic terrible male comedian using stereotypes of woman for a laugh aka “Women? Can’t live with them…” This is especially true in the gamer space which is usually male-centric and has historically tended towards rather insulting gender roles. As reference, I note the original D&D random Harlot’s table: http://gadgets.boingboing.net/gimages/random_harlot_table.jpg
Colin Fahrion Haha, wow! I forgot all about that.
Incidentally, I I think I named a tavern The Wanton Wench in our latest DW game :-/
Colin Fahrion Haha, wow! I forgot all about that.
Incidentally, I I think I named a tavern The Wanton Wench in our latest DW game :-/
Yeah that table is something else. It’s hilarious in a “oh man that is terrible. They were so not thinking.” sorta way.
Well if you named the tavern “The Wanton Wench” as a plot point showcasing how non-inclusive the society was towards women — sorta like the way Night Witches highlights the struggles of it’s protagonists against a chauvinistic society — then it was an appropriate name. Though I’m guessing the naming was more flippant than that. Not that I’m casting blame as I can’t say I’ve always been perfectly observant myself of my use of language. We learn and get better and by mastering context we get better at making jokes along the way.
Yeah that table is something else. It’s hilarious in a “oh man that is terrible. They were so not thinking.” sorta way.
Well if you named the tavern “The Wanton Wench” as a plot point showcasing how non-inclusive the society was towards women — sorta like the way Night Witches highlights the struggles of it’s protagonists against a chauvinistic society — then it was an appropriate name. Though I’m guessing the naming was more flippant than that. Not that I’m casting blame as I can’t say I’ve always been perfectly observant myself of my use of language. We learn and get better and by mastering context we get better at making jokes along the way.
It is offensive but the average person (male and female) have been so indoctrinated into sexism that they often times don’t recognize it for what it is. I try to remind myself of this when I hear someone say something like, “Don’t be such a girl” or “man up”. I don’t think they’re intentionally being sexist – it’s so ingrained into everything we do and say it’s hard to really step back and realize it. Once you start to see it, it’s still hard sometimes to break the habit of the verbage.
I do always comment on it though, usually in a snarky and sarcastic manner. What’s great is I train in a martial art every morning that is, typically, very misogynistic. I paint my toenails and it’s always one of the first thing people notice. It almost always leads to a conversation about “what makes it gay and why do you think that makes me less of a man?” While I choke them. 😀
It is offensive but the average person (male and female) have been so indoctrinated into sexism that they often times don’t recognize it for what it is. I try to remind myself of this when I hear someone say something like, “Don’t be such a girl” or “man up”. I don’t think they’re intentionally being sexist – it’s so ingrained into everything we do and say it’s hard to really step back and realize it. Once you start to see it, it’s still hard sometimes to break the habit of the verbage.
I do always comment on it though, usually in a snarky and sarcastic manner. What’s great is I train in a martial art every morning that is, typically, very misogynistic. I paint my toenails and it’s always one of the first thing people notice. It almost always leads to a conversation about “what makes it gay and why do you think that makes me less of a man?” While I choke them. 😀