In DW and other storygames, it seems rare when a real Moral Dilemma comes along and makes the group take pause. Are we just that good at rolling with the punches, or are we not taking enugh time to think about the long-term consequences of our actions?
http://www.creightonbroadhurst.com/gm-advice-6-moral-dilemmas-for-your-pcs/#more-1536
Moral Dilemmas? never heard of it. how big is it and does it carry any valuable loot. How many rations is its corpse worth?
Moral Dilemmas? never heard of it. how big is it and does it carry any valuable loot. How many rations is its corpse worth?
Moral dilemmas, schmoral dilemmas. Slaughter those baby goblins (and manticores) with impugnity!
Also, can we talk about how this article reaches for pretty much the lowest hanging fruit possible in terms of discussing moral dilemmas? Kill the prisoners? “Work with Evil?” Surely he could have thought of something more interesting than the six things he lists, which seem like very obvious (practically routine) moral dilemmas in an adventuring party.
Also: “Borderland of Adventure?” I wonder if that is a reference to Keep on the Borderlands, which famously dealt with the ‘Kill the Innocents’ moral dilemma approximately 100 years ago when it was written.
Moral dilemmas, schmoral dilemmas. Slaughter those baby goblins (and manticores) with impugnity!
Also, can we talk about how this article reaches for pretty much the lowest hanging fruit possible in terms of discussing moral dilemmas? Kill the prisoners? “Work with Evil?” Surely he could have thought of something more interesting than the six things he lists, which seem like very obvious (practically routine) moral dilemmas in an adventuring party.
Also: “Borderland of Adventure?” I wonder if that is a reference to Keep on the Borderlands, which famously dealt with the ‘Kill the Innocents’ moral dilemma approximately 100 years ago when it was written.
how about “defend yourself from the misinformed” The law is after you, or the town thinks your the cause of their problems. they will tie you to a stake and light the fire if you let them but it will take bloodshed to turn them back.
another good one is the “opportunity lost”. you managed to get the McGuffin that will save the village but a mysterious stranger offers you a lot of money for it, maybe a cool magic weapon as a bonus. those villagers can always move elsewhere, right?
how about “defend yourself from the misinformed” The law is after you, or the town thinks your the cause of their problems. they will tie you to a stake and light the fire if you let them but it will take bloodshed to turn them back.
another good one is the “opportunity lost”. you managed to get the McGuffin that will save the village but a mysterious stranger offers you a lot of money for it, maybe a cool magic weapon as a bonus. those villagers can always move elsewhere, right?
Basically I like the points about setting the PCs against groups where stabbing the hell out of them isn’t the best solution. Between this and a chat with a friend about how to do you have real decision making in a game when you are influenced by the quest reward, I’ve been pondering ways to make “combat” even more difficult/thoughtful for PCs
Basically I like the points about setting the PCs against groups where stabbing the hell out of them isn’t the best solution. Between this and a chat with a friend about how to do you have real decision making in a game when you are influenced by the quest reward, I’ve been pondering ways to make “combat” even more difficult/thoughtful for PCs
its a good point. adventuring parties are generally single minded and focused on a goal. get to the end of this dungeon, kill anything that gets in the way, loot everything that is not nailed down. only nearly certain character death will change their plans.
I never like to leave something alone when others are worried about dangers. I don’t play these games to not go on an adventure. but some problems can be solved without violence. if you don’t have a thief, a locked chest is normally smashed. but it might be left alone until you find a key, or taken with you if its small enough. A locked door is normally kicked in but again maybe the key is around here. maybe there is another way past. And a hunting party of orcs is normally ambushed but they might be followed. or you might try to sneak by them.
I think trying to pose a moral dilemma in the fiction might be the wrong approach though, if it happens naturally it happens. but like the end of the article says there are potential pitfalls of endless discussion and eventual party dissolution.
one of the first DW campaigns I was involved in had a few. one of the good characters died and came back with a quest to kill some Nobel. “what if he is a nice guy?” we asked. luckily he turned out to be possessed. still kind of iffy though.
then we found a child who was trapped on the astral plane and begged us not to abandon him. there didn’t seem to be any solution and the party almost came to blows over it. see earlier rant about neutral characters.
finally we discovered a powerful imprisoned creature who while not strictly evil, would help bring about the end of the world. this one actually caused us to fight each other and the party dissolved.
there was also a time in another party where I was uncomfortable with my companions plans and ended up hanging back to preform a mercy killing. in character no one should have known it happened but out of character there was a lot of complaining.
I think a dilemma might be a good way to deal with someone who relies to much on his alignment to provide a character. but to much of it, forced on a party trying to have fun might be poison
its a good point. adventuring parties are generally single minded and focused on a goal. get to the end of this dungeon, kill anything that gets in the way, loot everything that is not nailed down. only nearly certain character death will change their plans.
I never like to leave something alone when others are worried about dangers. I don’t play these games to not go on an adventure. but some problems can be solved without violence. if you don’t have a thief, a locked chest is normally smashed. but it might be left alone until you find a key, or taken with you if its small enough. A locked door is normally kicked in but again maybe the key is around here. maybe there is another way past. And a hunting party of orcs is normally ambushed but they might be followed. or you might try to sneak by them.
I think trying to pose a moral dilemma in the fiction might be the wrong approach though, if it happens naturally it happens. but like the end of the article says there are potential pitfalls of endless discussion and eventual party dissolution.
one of the first DW campaigns I was involved in had a few. one of the good characters died and came back with a quest to kill some Nobel. “what if he is a nice guy?” we asked. luckily he turned out to be possessed. still kind of iffy though.
then we found a child who was trapped on the astral plane and begged us not to abandon him. there didn’t seem to be any solution and the party almost came to blows over it. see earlier rant about neutral characters.
finally we discovered a powerful imprisoned creature who while not strictly evil, would help bring about the end of the world. this one actually caused us to fight each other and the party dissolved.
there was also a time in another party where I was uncomfortable with my companions plans and ended up hanging back to preform a mercy killing. in character no one should have known it happened but out of character there was a lot of complaining.
I think a dilemma might be a good way to deal with someone who relies to much on his alignment to provide a character. but to much of it, forced on a party trying to have fun might be poison
Love this conversation, and completely agree. I’ve tried to stop non-character-driven pointless violence before in games and been looked at as though I’m soft, stupid, or spoiling the fun. When you look at someone’s character sheet as they stomp a restrained/confined NPC’s head and it says they are “good” you have to ask, are you really playing your alignment/character or are you just looking for an opportunity to vent some pent up rage/hostility. I think it makes for better games and better stories when characters (and their players) question the morality of decisions and/or question each other.
Love this conversation, and completely agree. I’ve tried to stop non-character-driven pointless violence before in games and been looked at as though I’m soft, stupid, or spoiling the fun. When you look at someone’s character sheet as they stomp a restrained/confined NPC’s head and it says they are “good” you have to ask, are you really playing your alignment/character or are you just looking for an opportunity to vent some pent up rage/hostility. I think it makes for better games and better stories when characters (and their players) question the morality of decisions and/or question each other.